Made for Christ
Made for Christ explores how we, as believers in Jesus, are called to live with faith in a fallen and broken world. We dive into scripture, have open and honest conversations, and share powerful stories of lives transformed by the Gospel.
Made for Christ
The math of God's love does not compute. Isabel's Story.
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Isabel spent years wrestling with hurt, anger, faith, and questions she couldn’t solve. Yet through every detour, God remained patient, drawing her back to the truth that she was deeply loved.
In this episode of Made for Christ, Isabel shares how God transformed her pain into compassion, her questions into a deeper faith, and her life into an opportunity to show others the love she first received from Him.
The God of all creation sent His Son to die for us. Then He called us into His plan and purpose. By every human measure, it doesn’t make sense. In Isabel’s words, “the math ain't mathing.” And perhaps that’s the beautiful part: the math of God’s love simply does not compute.
And it's important. I think all kids need to know like, no, you're wanted, you're needed, and you're loved. And you matter, and you're learning and you're confused, but like you're wanted and you're needed and you're loved. And before you were wanted and needed and loved by your parents, you were wanted and needed and loved by the being that created you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that same being created the mountains and the valleys and the oceans and the ladybug and the millipede and the elephant and the blue whale. And he looked out at all of creation and he still said, You know what I need? You know what's missing? An Isabelle. We need an Isabelle. And we need a Pascal, right?
SPEAKER_01That is so sweet. I just like the way that. Hello, hello everyone, and welcome back to Made for Christ. Alyssa here with, of course, my amazing co-host Pascal.
SPEAKER_00Hello, hello.
SPEAKER_01Hello. How are you doing, Pascal?
SPEAKER_00Great.
SPEAKER_01Good. It's been a long time since we've gotten together.
SPEAKER_00It has been way too long. There's been a lot happening in both of our lives. So we took a little bit of time away just to get into the new rhythms of life. Because you started that job. You shared that last week.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And then I had a birthday.
SPEAKER_01You did. Very good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The big what?
SPEAKER_005-0.
SPEAKER_01Oh no way. Really?
SPEAKER_00You didn't know that?
SPEAKER_01No, I thought you were like 42.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I wish I was 42. Isn't that the magic number? That's the number when you're supposed to know everything.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I feel like as the years progress, I I know less and less and less about everything around me.
SPEAKER_01That makes sense. Like, because as you get older, you think you know everything, and then you get to this point where now you're like, I really don't know anything, and you accept it and you figure out that you know less and less as time goes on. What a great thing to look forward to.
SPEAKER_00Yay! Yay! So we're here speaking with Isabel. Izzy.
SPEAKER_02Hi. Hello. Hi, hi.
SPEAKER_00So we have a little tradition here on this podcast. I don't know if you've seen this before, but we like to play a game called Hi Low Buffalo. Have you heard of that before?
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So just to give you a quick rundown about it, hi is what's been going on in your week? Did you do you have a high? Do you have a success story? Did something wonderful happen that you just want to share? Low. Of course, the opposite. Are you struggling with anything? Buffalo. Just something interesting about you that I don't know or that the audience might want to know about you. So we'll we won't begin with you.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Trying to think of the scope of things that you know about me. Okay. Okay. Okay. That'll be a fun one.
SPEAKER_00Can we begin with Alyssa?
SPEAKER_01Okay. So since we last saw each other, I would say that my my high is starting my new job. I get to continue to work in serving the same population I was serving before, but just in more of a continuum of care kind of thing at um Compass Affordable Housing. And so I am the director of social enterprise. So I'm starting lots of start lots of different business ventures with the goal of creating job training opportunities for people. So people who are in constant instability or maybe chronic homelessness or just people who need a pause to gain skills, knowledge, abilities, and confidence to go out to the real world to get jobs that can sustain not just their lives, but also create a legacy for families and stuff. So that's something that God's really placed on my heart recently is there's so many people taking care of the here and now, you know, this the government's plucking people out of the streets and just sticking them in a house or an apartment or whatever. But that's that keeps generations trapped in this system of projects. So what what's been placed on my heart and what Compass is doing differently is creating opportunity for people to get out of the projects to make better money to sustain life in like middle housing or affordable housing, but really so that generations to come have something to um build on.
SPEAKER_00So I I think about all the people that that grow up in that or grow up in the projects, grow up in low-income housing, they just don't know how to break out and just start on their own and establish themselves, find that job, find that skills. No one's taught them most of the time.
SPEAKER_01Right, because their parents before them didn't know how to do that or didn't need to do that because it was all handed to them. So yeah, absolutely. So you're helping break in those barriers.
SPEAKER_00That's beautiful. I love that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm excited. I've my time at GRM was not spent doing stuff like this, but it was spent serving this population. So I know how to I know how to serve that population. Plus, three of my favorite people from GRM are there too. So I'm super excited to get to work with them again.
SPEAKER_00Over there. I know. Amazing people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's not, it doesn't happen often that you get to leave a job and still work with your favorite people. So it's pretty cool. Um, so that's my high. My low, Christian was home for four days, and then he had to leave again on Thursday. And so he'll be gone for another three or four weeks with he's with Flyleaf right now and then Dance Gavin Dance in Europe. So that's pretty cool. Like he gets to go to Europe, but it's he's been gone since April, so it's really hard still. I know it sounds like a broken record for everybody, but especially if he's like that far away.
SPEAKER_00It's not like he can just jump on a plane and see you the next day if he needed to, if you wanted to.
SPEAKER_01And communication is like the prayer request, figuring out how to talk to each other with such a huge uh time difference. So that's really been our prayer is how do we be intentional about communicating well with each other? So um, so that's my low. Um, my buffalo. That was a fun sound.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're keeping that in.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's fine. My buffalo is so it's not really a buffalo, but uh so in my in my work, I'm creating schedules for cohorts and stuff, and um uh the intention is to create healthy communities with people. And so to create healthy communities, you have to like be together. So I took a picture of my schedule and I sent it to Pascal and I was like, look at what we're doing. And truly, the beginning of every week when we have our cohort meetings, they're doing a high, I almost did it, high low buffalo. So I stole Pascal's little little um activity, and so I'm gonna use it to help stimulate conversation within the cohorts. So that's a fun fact.
SPEAKER_00I I love that because it helped people open up and share and build connections and community.
SPEAKER_01Yes, healthy community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_01Your turn.
SPEAKER_00Oh man, okay. Hi. Um, I've got to think about this one because I always forget this term. I am a new great godfather? No. Oh no, no, no. Uncle. Great uncle. Yes. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. My niece has a grunkle. There you go. I'm terrible with these terms. My my little niece has a healthy baby boy, which the whole family's very excited about. But 36 hours in labor.
SPEAKER_01Yikes.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Sorry. Um, that's a huge high. It won't carry the family name, but but that that's okay. That's okay. We we all love seeing babies in the family, because yeah. Um I'm thinking about a low. It's just been a hard work week.
SPEAKER_01Has it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Long days. But when I see people like you guys, I get recharged. And an interesting thing about me is I am an extreme introvert. I get my recharge in silence. I love long bike rides. I love being on a boat in a lake or camping, just being in isolation. My happy place is my office where there's no one else around, right? That's not terribly interesting. But what is is that when I'm around Christian, fellow Christian believers who encourage me, who I see are doing tremendous work for the kingdom, that recharges me like nothing else. And I don't understand that because that's not how I'm built. I'm an introvert. Introverts shouldn't be recharged that way.
SPEAKER_01I don't know how that applies to your spirit, though. I don't like I don't think our spirits are introverted. I think our spirits seek out other believers or other like spirits. And maybe that's what it is, is that your spirit is recharged by our spirit.
SPEAKER_02And maybe introversion and extroversion is something we do in our own strength, right? Or it's a way that we're responding to our own strength. And so, but then like we're all gonna get a boost when we're around the Jesus and other people. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_00This woman, she's a super battery. I mean, anyone around her, I don't know about that one. Wireless charging. All the people around her.
SPEAKER_02That's very good. That's great.
SPEAKER_00Yes. That's why they put me with the children.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Although you yourself don't necessarily get that way. You get you have so much energy that you share with others that I've caught you asleep on the stage in the middle of worship before. He might have a picture.
SPEAKER_01Oh no. I take nap here. Yeah. I mean, this is a company.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. It's your turn.
SPEAKER_02Uh so high and low are probably both work related. It's my second year teaching with the sort of schedule that I have, although the schedule has gotten much better. The leadership really worked hard to kind of reduce some paper cuts. Um, that's my second year teaching Spanish, and I think I finally kind of have a lesson plan template. And I'll I've so this week was really good. Of I got to decide on some activities and then execute them, and then they actually worked, and like the kids actually responded. And I was like, whoa, maybe I can do this. Um and then the low is the kids are back and I'm tired. I'm just um I'm having to really evaluate like what when you're in a caretaker role, which I I count teachers as caretakers, right? And when you're in a caretaker role, it can be really easy to forget to take care of yourself. And so I've and then being the after-school program, and I tell people I'm a professional auntie, right? Because I'm just like a bonus grown-up for people's kids and which I love. Um, but it's exhausting. And so it's we're about we're a couple weeks in, and I'm realizing my rhythms are off and my habits are not in the right place. And so I've I've been weary, right? But full of joy because I'm enjoying being with the kids, right? Like two things can be true at once. Um Buffalo, I collect rubber ducks. Cute. Do you have a Jeep? I don't. Everyone asks that. And I didn't get that for the longest time. And then I saw Jeeps and I was like, I get it now. That's so funny. That question makes sense. I understood that reference. Um, but yeah, I so it started senior year of high school. Uh my one of the few moments of clarity I had as a teenager was telling my parents they could do whatever they wanted for the dedication in the yearbook. Just please keep in mind that I don't want to be embarrassed. Mom, she's wonderful. Uh and they had some cute little note about zest for life. And it was a picture of me with a rubber duck in my mouth. And then, like, either spaghetti or pizza all over my face. We still don't know what, but like we're stuck in the middle of the way. No, it's fine. It was you weren't 14. Can you imagine like a spaghetti eating? And it's like just yeah, no, it's it'd be bad. Um, but yeah, and and uh and then because of the rubber duck picture, and I had an Ernie doll. I loved the rubber ducky song. I was a big Sesame Street kid, still love Sesame Street, and uh and he followed me everywhere. So I turned 18 the day I graduated high school, and my mom like flooded the house with rubber ducks, and so like I would go get a glass of water and there would be a rubber duck who was looking like he was ready to go surfing. And then I came home from school one day and there was a rubber duck, like toothbrush holder for a bathroom, but with lots of sunglasses in it. So like it was just became this thing. And I would come home from school and over the years, and so Christmas, like there was a gingerbread man and a snowman and a Santa Claus. So yeah. So that's so sweet.
SPEAKER_01And you say you still can still rubber ducks do you have?
SPEAKER_02I should count them. They're in a giant bin in the garage. There's um, but I got a sparkly rubber duck from someone for Valentine's Day recently and a big, like probably like that size elf rubber duck for Christmas. And yeah. I don't need any more yellow rubber ducks though. And the the danger of being a teacher and saying you collect something is then that becomes your whole identity.
SPEAKER_01So I I expect like the hundred dollar bill.
SPEAKER_02That's the right technique. My classroom theme is money. Yeah, can you imagine? Everybody wins everyone, I buy things through the studio. I get tend to go to coffee. Yeah, yeah. But um, if I do ever get a classroom someday, it will absolutely be rubber ductile because I have all of the things. I have the shower curtain, I have the I have all the things that are in storage, but I have them. I love that.
SPEAKER_00So is that just um an expression of love? Like people who love you, yeah, leave this for you. So it's reminders of it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so. And and they all I I I'm shocked at how like many rubber kinds of rubber ducks there are. Like people like I guess people get it now because of the Jeep thing, but and this started in 2007, right? I graduated high school in 2007. People would be like, How many yellow rubber ducks do you need? And I I never said they were yellow. I never I never said they were just like bathtub rubber ducks. Right. The whole industry, you guys. The other personalities. Well, and then a funny theme that would happen is so my first degree was in computer science, and um, there's a concept called duck debugging. So debugging is when you figure out what's wrong with your program, right? And uh sometimes you just need to explain it to someone because it's writing computer code is a translation process, right? You have a process in your head you want to happen, and you need to create the set of instructions that the computer understands to make it happen. And you're always gonna think you gave it the right instructions. It's like, it's like with kids. You tell them to and they don't do the thing, and you're like, but I told you to do the thing. And then, okay, I have to evaluate what did I say wrong? Like, how did I not clearly communicate? You're five. Um, same with computers. And there's a weird metaphor essay in there somewhere. We're not gonna examine that right now. But um you just the act of walking through the code and explaining it out loud, you can often find what's wrong. So you don't need a person, you just need a conversation partner that's gonna be a great listener. So, like a rubber duck. And so the concept, and I didn't know this going into bugging. So awesome. So when I taught, I actually like gave people rubber ducks when they would come to my office. Not from my personal collection. I got no child. Yeah, no, those are special. But you just you can be like, okay, so here I'm trying to do XYZ thing, and here I'm trying to, and then you go, Oh no, I'm not. I told the computer to do this and thinks rubber duck. Like explain it to a pet or a stuffed animal. That's awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So funny through line. That's really cool. That makes me think of something, but I don't want to take us on too far of a tangent, but you know me. Okay. You you obviously understand binary language, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, it's been a while, but yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, have you ever heard of the concept triangle?
SPEAKER_02Yes, and it hurts my head.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes, or like fuzzy logic.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02Right. So the the uh brief overview is that truth things can either be true or false, right? Or like on or off, right? Something either has power or it doesn't. And that there's this interesting field of logic and study where like, what if maybe had a value? Like, what would that look like? And how would we evaluate the truth of exp of logical mathematical expressions? If it's weird. Fuzzy logic is it's cool, but it's very weird. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone who only knows me as a preschool teacher is gonna be like, I'm sorry, what are those words that just came out of your mouth? I don't, this is not the Isabelle I recognize, and no, yeah. Sorry, guys.
unknownMe. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Layers, complexities. We're all parfait, okay? Or an onion. We're parfaits, we like parfaits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I have a a lifer, something that I I hold on to. I I won't quote it perfectly, but it's it's something along the lines of you should love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00And there are people in my life where I just look at them and think they love God. I could see it, it radiates out of them, it radiates out of everything they do, and and I love that. And there are certain people in our society who have a very prominent position in the church, and you look at them, you see their public life and their personal life, and their personal life doesn't always reflect the public face, right? So they can be in high places in missionary work or in the church or just as a public figure, and you know they like academically they might have a relationship with God, but you just don't see it walking out, right? Um that's why I love you, by the way. I just radiates out of it. Anyway, sorry. Um so I was I forgot when this was, but last week I was looking at the lunch lady at the the church that I um work at. There's also an elementary school associated. So I was looking at the the lunch lady of the school and just seeing the way she loved the people around her. I knew that she loved God, and I knew that she loved the little ones, and that love just radiated off of everything that she did because that she made that the priority of her life, just building into the next generation. I so admire that about you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. I don't know what to say to that.
SPEAKER_00No, it's it's like that's why I wanted to hear your story, right? So, how did you get to this place of you're a woman that is clearly in love with her creator? How did you get there?
SPEAKER_02So I wanna I wanna start at the end and fill it in, but I it's hard to know where to start, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Like so we start with yeah, where did you grow up?
SPEAKER_02I grew up here. I grew up in Tucson, Arizona, or a valley to be specific. Uh and um I I grew up attending an episcopal church, and uh it's still a tradition that I love. I have a whole TED talk about that. Maybe it'll come up in the conversation, but Okay, so yes, explain to me what that means. Yes. So I that as a it's a denomination, so that I'll probably my version of church history. So I'm not a church historian, but we I think most people are familiar with the Catholic Church. And uh they're during King Henry VIII wanted to uh he was it was a he was a Catholic king, he was the Catholic king of England, and he wanted a divorce for a lot of complicated reasons and wanted to divest from the authority of the Catholic Church. And uh, and anyone who's you know watched Six the Musical knows all about all of Henry VIII's wives, but that started the Anglican church, and so he was the head of the Anglican church and and viewed himself as an equal authority, equal authority of the Pope. And there's a lot of really fun theology you can get into, but just from a church history perspective. Um and then when we, you know, you have people leave England and start a new country, and we can't, you know, have the king of England be the head of our church if he's not the political head of state. And so we need uh New system, and we kind of got other denominations out of that. And I my understanding as Episcopal is like the next one down, or it was a early church in or early American history denomination. I've actually never looked at like the letters or the papers of formation to see when it starts. But uh we have a prayer book, we have a very similar church calendar. I grew up practicing and observing Lent and Advent and all those things. And and that's not something that is unique to the Catholic Church, but the but I do think we can give the Catholic Church credit for the what we view as the liturgical church calendar right now. Um, but there are a lot of other denominations, even within the general sphere of Protestantism, that observe that calendar, right? And so yeah, I grew up going to that kind of a church where you know the priest wears, we call them a priest instead of a pastor. They have a white robe, no incense. There was no incense in that church, but Sunday school and youth group and um all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00So you your parents brought you up in that. So they were believers.
SPEAKER_02They were not. Um, I I should check with them and see. Uh my I think both my parents saw the church as an institution for good. And mom wanted us to grow up with access to religion and with access to faith. And um, and I think her story is kind of complicated. And she's a writer, so I hope she writes it down. She's an excellent writer. She taught me to write, she taught me to tell stories. Um, and dad, the the way I thought of it was that he was either atheist or agnostic, depending on how mad he was at the world when he woke up, which is misleading. He's a he's not a mad person. He's actually very quiet, calm, stoic, Asian man. I'm adopted for all of you looking at my face. Um, you know, but so we kind of there was this beautiful thing about the house I grew up in, and it's still the way my parents lead the family today, that discourse was wanted and coveted, and conversation was good, and um, you know, there was space for rhetoric and for a difference of opinion. So my my parents had these different kinds of faith walks, and you know, this was I'm an 89 baby, so you could belong to different political parties and still have, you know, fellowship and community and um other TED talks aside. And and so they they agreed on how to raise a family and they agreed on an ethic system and a morality system, and they just disagreed on what project should be funded and what order and how we should get there, and you know what were the and and so yeah, we went to church and and uh mom took us every Sunday, and dad came when we were in a pageant and would record things and came for baptisms, and um I I I I loved it.
SPEAKER_00I um sounds like you have a lot of good memories.
SPEAKER_02I do. It was a really warm space. It was there were tons of kids. The the senior priest or like the head rector when I was growing up was also a man of science. And um, I forget if his degree was in mathematics or chemistry or something, but he had become a priest later in life. And so he just held I'm a talker, it's why you had me on a podcast. He held space for a crazy kid with big questions really well.
SPEAKER_01That's so great.
SPEAKER_02And uh, and when I was in fourth grade, I had questions about my adoption, and my parents have always been transparent. They've always made it so that I could ask those questions and we could have those conversations. And it, it just I think I was wrestling with it a little bit from like an existential point of view. And uh, and the way I remember it is mom went to Father Gregory one day and was just like, I this is beyond the scope of what I know how to help her with. She she's she's sad and she's hurt, and you know, I have facts, but I don't, you know, she has big questions. And and his response was essentially, well, if she has big questions, she's ready for big answers, which means she should sit in big church. But if she's going to sit in big church church, she needs to understand communion. So I got confirmed. And so in the episcopal tradition, we do baby baptisms and then confirmation at like an age of knowing sort of thing. And that's you go through a class, and there's all there's kind of like a it's a baby theology situation, and there's this really beautiful liturgy around standing before your church and accepting Christ as, you know, Lord and author of your life and submitting to his authority. And the church has these beautiful responses of like, we will help them, and it's it's really fun. Um, so yeah, in fourth grade, I think it was the first confirmation class where they served hot chocolate next to the cocoa. Um and it was fun. And I have lots of memories from that. And then I started to sit in big church. And once you're confirmed, you you can become when you're old enough, you can serve as part of the altar group. And so I was in the processions, and as soon as I could drive, I drove myself to church. And it's just it was a really safe, happy place.
SPEAKER_00You talk about having big questions. Was yeah, were the questions just around your adoption, or were you questioning other things?
SPEAKER_02Probably other things. I I don't remember all of them, but uh we have a friend of the family who I I think of as an uncle because he was that close to my parents, much the way that I am an aunt for some of my friend's kids. And um he he told he told me once I I was in college and I was going through something. He goes, You've always had big questions, just the whole time I've known you. Like, you know, what's like what's the meaning of life kind of questions, right? Like, why why do people do that? And why, why, why is it possible to hurt that much? And why would a big God do those things? Like just big questions, you know. And I think the start of it was, where did I come from? How did I get here? And why, why were the people that you know God chose to make me not the people that God wanted to raise me? Like, why? Why can't it just work out the way it's supposed to work out in the storybooks? And I know why now, but it's hard when you're 10. Absolutely, you know, and so yeah. Did you ever find an answer to the big questions of life and not all we're here and much like you, I'm like the older I get, I'm like, oh Lord, there is so much I don't know yet. I realize, and I think you you get older and you realize the world is bigger and it's more complicated, and and the best questions to answer don't have simple answers, right? And like the and the coolest people you're gonna meet are complicated and messy, and you can love them a whole lot, and they can really make you mad and and they're still worthy of dignity and respect. And and like you just the the world just it's like a it's like a a fractal image, right? Like you think, like, okay, sorry, math term. If you're where if you like take a triangle and then you draw triangles on the sides of that triangle, and then you draw triangles on the sides of the, and so it's like it gets more and more and more complicated. And I think when you get older, the world becomes a more and more complicated fractal. You're like, oh, there's weird edges and there's pointy things, and it's not simple.
SPEAKER_00Big picture items tend to be pretty simple though.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, I think it depends on how big, maybe. Like, so what I tell the kids is God is real, he made you, he made you on purpose, and he made you for a purpose, which means being here in this room isn't an accident, nor is you being here on this earth, and that whatever's coming, God already knows about it and he's gonna walk you through it. Like that's simple, right?
SPEAKER_01But not necessarily easy, but not easy, but simple.
SPEAKER_02And so when like when you dig into like, okay, well, what does that mean? Like, I have a purpose. Am I going to like save District 12 from the capital? No. Um but like, but you're here and you're here for a reason, and that and you're not an accident, and you're wanted, and you're needed, and you're loved. And I think some when you're adoption is a beautiful solution to a hard situation, right? And and it's important. I think all kids need to know like, no, you're wanted, you're needed, and you're loved, and you matter, and you're learning and you're confused, but like you're wanted and you're needed and you're loved. And before you were wanted and needed and loved by your parents, you were wanted and needed and loved by the by the being that created you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that same being created the mountains and the valleys and the oceans and the ladybug and the millipede and the elephant and the blue whale. And he looked out at all of creation and he still said, You know what I need, you know what's missing? An Isabel. We need an Isabel and we need a Pascal, right?
SPEAKER_01And that is so sweet. I just like the way that your but your spot it it's meaningful, you know. Like I could say something like that, but it wouldn't have nearly as much meaning or or compass. Well, there's compassion. But it's just like coming from someone who maybe at one point asked the question, how come my my parents didn't want me? Yeah. To be able to then meet a child, yeah, and and all children, not not just children who are adopted or in the foster system or whatever, but but across the board, it it it goes for everybody. And for you to be able to share that so beautifully and so easy to understand. But it's just it's it's just incredible. And it's such a gift that the Lord has given you. And for you to have the humility to be able to say, hey, I'm really good at this. This is how I'm gonna share this with people. Thanks. It's incredible. Thank you. Thank you. Cool.
SPEAKER_02I didn't know I had that superpower. Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, another big picture thing is like we we all go through stuff. Yeah. And we go through stuff for a reason. And that's part of, I'm not gonna tell a 10-year-old when you're a grown-up, it's gonna be really hard. And then later when you're a grown-up, you're gonna get it. But that's part of our purpose. I think part of, and it's part of the point of this podcast, right? Is people have stories and those stories can heal other people. Yeah. And we go through hard things because when we get on the other side of them, you can look at someone and go, oh boy, do I get it. Yeah. I get it. And I don't get it because I'm living your life. I'm getting it be I get it because I'm human and you're human, and there's a transcendent bond. And that's how Jesus looks at us. Yes. And that's I think that's what it means to look at someone as an image bearer. I think like the the the through line of my faith life has really been wrestling with what it means to be an image bearer and what it means to look at people like they're image bearers, and what it means to interact with people in a way where they know that I know that they're an image bearer. Yeah, right. Like how, like, yes, and even when they're making me really mad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02And yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so you've been sharing a lot of wisdom. What I want to also hear is how did you come to these conclusions? Right? I because you didn't stay in that church.
SPEAKER_02No. And I I actually um hi. Um, I walked away. There was a corn. I actually walked away from church um for a while, and uh, which I think is part of the hard stuff. So so you get through childhood and high school, and I was spending lots of time at church, and I loved it. And I made a the very simple and common mistake of not getting plugged into a church quickly when I went away to college. So I went away to college. I was uh I was a bit of a brat as a teenager, as I think all teenagers are, and I desperately wanted to get away from home, and that wasn't wise. I needed to be close to home. But um, I went away to college and hard things happened and I wasn't plugged into a church. And I think that for my whole childhood, I knew God, but I didn't know God. And so I I knew a lot about him, and I could tell you all the Bible stories, and I could, I could ace any trivia quit. But I didn't, I hadn't been through enough to really like know, and I hadn't had the shaping in the discipleship to go, okay, there's a hard day. I'm gonna go talk to my creator. He's an entity that I can talk to. And and I do think, as an aside, I do think that in some ways that can be a criticism of some of the older spaces, some of the older, more liturgical spaces. There's there's a bridge that needs to be built, right? I think sometimes the more liturgical academic churchy denominations can sometimes miss the heart. And I think sometimes the more evangelical, you know, feeling spaces can miss the cerebral theology, you know, can and we need a bridge. It's why we need each other. It's why ecumenical work's important. But back to your question. Um I wasn't plugged into a church and I went through some really hard stuff in college that I think a lot of young women unfortunately go through.
SPEAKER_00Do you want to share any of that?
SPEAKER_02I I was uh I was young and impressionable, and I hung out with the wrong men, and they did not see me as an image bearer. We'll put it that way. And uh uh and I got mad at God. And you know, how could you not protect me? And how could you not keep that from happening? And um how, you know, why? And and there was also, I don't know if every college campus has this, but there was also a street preacher that was very focused on the doom and gloom and on the wrath of God. And there's always one. There's always one, right? It's like brother something, right? And he's you don't actually know if he went to seminary or his right, but like, and there's posters and there's a megaphone, and he just camps out on a particular corner. And it was all about the wrath of God and you know, sin, and and like, and let's be very clear, sin is very real and it keeps us separate from God. And but there's another half to the story, like the story didn't end with the fall, right? And and I was just so mad and so angry because I had been, I'd been mistreated by these men that were not my peers. They were a little older. And I'm also hearing this lecture, you know, as but walking to class and getting this sort of like ancillary information about if you if you don't believe, you're going to hell. And I just remember thinking like, how do I reconcile the fact that the kindest man I know, the most honorable, most upright, most perfect example of morality and ethics is my dad. And he doesn't believe. And then these men have done these things that are unconscionable. And you're telling me that all they gotta do is X, Y, right? I just I couldn't reconcile that as a young woman, as a young 18-year-old. I was like, I refuse to accept this equation. The math ain't mathing. I'm not talking to you, God, until you fix it. That never works. It never works, but it took a decade. And I don't, it's possible that I said something to someone at some point, but I don't think I ever got to a point where I was like, God doesn't exist. It it really felt like a decade-long temper tantrum. Like it really felt like I was playing chicken with the almighty sovereign creator of the universe. And he is he is kind and loving and patient. And uh I finished college and moved away to Texas and had other hard things happen, right? If you don't examine things, patterns can repeat themselves. And uh and that got even messier. And I came home from my first winter break from my first big kid job, and I was on a long walk with mom and I was crying and telling her all the awful things, and and she said, Well, maybe you need to go back to church. And I lectured her, as all 18-year-olds will do. Um, no, I'm not sorry, no, this was this was fast forward, this was after college. I was like 26 or so. So, as all 26-year-olds will do, I lectured my mother and uh and I told her, I don't those people, right? You know, I don't want to absolutely not. Like, those people don't love dad. Don't those people don't get this, those people don't understand that. You know, how why would I, you know, XYZ? And she like listened to my rant. And she probably said a lot of things, but what I remember her saying was, uh, Isabel, you're not describing a God I recognize. I think you need to go get to know God on your own terms again. And I went, bet. And I made a spreadsheet of every Episcopal church in the city of San Antonio, and I uh evaluated their websites and I came up with criteria. And the church that had the highest score on my spreadsheet, I was gonna go weekly, I was gonna visit them all, I was gonna find out, you know, how awful they were.
SPEAKER_00I love that you approach this as a computer scientist.
SPEAKER_02Well, because I am one by trade, right? I my formative years were, yeah. And I probably still have that spreadsheet somewhere and like the create, you know, formation and outreach and teaching and children's ministry and you know, length of it's just all the criteria. I gave them all a score. It's pride. Um and I went to the first one on there and uh sat in service. And when they present communion, because different churches will do things in slightly different ways, but it gets to a point where in in this church and in most Episcopal churches, you kind of go through the first half of service, and then there's a moment where there might be announcements or a welcome, and it's a chance for them to say, you know, we we offer communion freely to all of our Christian brethren. But, you know, if you're if you're questioning or you're not like it's not required, um, you're welcome at the seat of the table. If you right, they kind of like handle that, but like also don't do this lightly, right? If you're not in union with Christ, just hang out for a bit, right? Um can I was in the way, way back in the church, and I sat there and I sat there and I was thinking, and there's pews, and it's this beautiful building with these gorgeous uh um stained glass and everything. And the usher gets to my room, because there's like ushers that are gonna let you go up to the altar. It's beautiful. Um, it's really sobering. And and he just stands out of the way, didn't say anything. They they're they're really good about just making the space for someone to approach the altar, but not, you know. And I decided to get up and I walk up the long, it was red carpet and all the wood. And I knelt at the altar and I took communion and I sobbed on the way back to my seat. And it felt like I was home. And took me a while to admit that mom was right, but it felt like I was home. And uh, and yeah, and so I just started attending that church faithfully and weekly, and uh, and that also wasn't the end of things. That there was there's more rocky, which we can get to, but we can also pause in case this, but I just uh, and that began the that was the beginning of my return to the body of Christ, right? Was me stubbornly trying to prove that there was no such thing as a good Christian space. There were no good, there's no such thing as a good Christian. Even being someone who like believed in God and was mad at him about his math equation. I just didn't understand how to reconcile. And I, and as I'm telling you the story, I wonder if some of that was wrestling with that image bearer thing, right? That like, how can you be so cruel and so mean and so judgmental and so and we do have those problems in the church. Maybe I shouldn't let some street preacher who's trying to scare teenagers be, you know, the uh spokesperson for the church. But like there is a seed of truth there too, right? That sometimes the sometimes the the the cruelest people can be like you're trying to call someone to account. And if you don't do it in a loving way, like you can speak truth, but you can speak it in a way that is unkind. And and you and we misrepresent our God when we do that, right? So yeah. So that got me back to church. And then why I have a I will there is probably a series of essays somewhere about the the pattern of behavior I had when when seeking life partners, which is not something I want to talk about today.
SPEAKER_00But so I feel like this is a good moment for us to take a five-minute break. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01Wait, can I ask a question? Yes. Are we do we have time to ask a question? You good? Okay. So thinking, if you can remember, or even right now, what were the feelings that you were having after you took the communion for the first time in a decade? What what were you feeling?
SPEAKER_02Like relief. Relief. Yeah. And like lighter. Like I think I had been walking around with a really big burden. And and and it just it just felt like I was home again. Like it was a building that I didn't know, and I hadn't spoken a word to anybody. It was like, I'm home. How is that possible?
SPEAKER_01You didn't feel any like guilt or shame or or like um like you needed to hide from God. Like now that you realized, oh crap, like mom was right, God's right here. You didn't feel like I don't remember feeling like I do remember feeling like that when I made certain choices.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, of course. But but in that moment you were vulnerable, it was like supernaturally peaceful. That's amazing. Yeah. And I just when you think about throwing a 10 year tantrum, the best part is that God let you do that. Yes, and it's it's incredible that He let you do that and He gave you room, time, and space. And when you came back. To him, yeah, there was no shame, there was no guilt, there was relief.
SPEAKER_02It's the prodigal it is the prodigal child story. Yeah and and I have had the gift of also being the older later and later when we get right. I have had seasons where I'm the older sibling in the prodigal story. I've been home, I've been doing it right. I came back. I how dare you! Right, right, right, and uh yeah, no, it was it was it's one of those things. It was it was a god thing.
SPEAKER_01I just every time I get to hear people's stories, it's so cool to know how much God loves us, how intimately he loves us, and how uniquely he loves us. Yes. That's just so grace. Okay, we can take a break now. Okay. So we took the tiny break.
SPEAKER_02I was telling you that I the we were at the point of the story of me getting back physically to the body of Christ. But there was still a lot of work God had to do. There's still a lot of work God has to do with my life. Yeah, I just I'm more aware of it now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you you made the challenge. You put you you accepted your mother's challenge. Your mission.
SPEAKER_03Should you please do accept that?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02You created the spreadsheet. And a funny thing about it is I found out later that it was dad's idea. Like my dad talked to my mom and said, our daughter isn't happy. I mean, I don't know how the conversation went, but my understanding of it is that he recognized, they both recognized that I wasn't happy and I wasn't at peace and I was really struggling. And he made the observation that the happiest and most peaceful I've ever been was when I was plugged into a church.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02And he just, they just felt like it would that, you know, mom being the one that took us to church when we were kids, even though the family stopped going to church, that that that could be a conversation she could broach. And that there was a need for a mother-daughter conversation anyway, right? Right. Um, but when I found that, I was like, wait, what? That's sweet. Dad wanted me to go back to church. Dad, the whole reason I've been staying away from I mean, he's not the whole reason, but he was my excuse. Right. Right. Like in another reason. He wants me to go back to church. Okay, God, I get it. Absolutely. Like, what?
SPEAKER_00So, how did you reconcile those feelings that you've been having about why didn't you protect me? Why weren't you there with me? You know, those moments that you were angry with him. How did you deal with that anger? Because that didn't just go away, or did it go away?
SPEAKER_02No. Um, I think I it I I hesitate because I know someone who is currently in pain is going to hear this and be like, shut up. Uh but I came to terms with the fact that that like there that there was a purpose to the story and that it I didn't have to know what it was right now, but that my God was real and that he loved me and he created me and and that it that there had to be a reason. And even if I didn't know what that reason was, it was real and it existed and it was worth finding out. And then that kind of like helped me buy time to figure it out. And I think in a general sense, like we go through hard things so that when we meet people who are going through those hard things, we can help them. And I am uniquely equipped to help a young woman who has maybe some abandonment issues and some self-worth issues and seeks out the wrong kinds of relationships because of those self-worth issues and creates a self-fulfilling prophecy about the way she should be treated and is wrestling with her face all at the same time. Like I am uniquely equipped to help that young woman to help a version. You know, I can look at someone and go, oh my gosh, you're me at 22. Yeah. Like you're, can we get coffee? Can I talk to you? Do you need a hug? Right. And I think like we all need to be praying for all of us. And when you pray with someone who has been through what you've been through and God has carried them through that valley and put them a little higher up the mountain on the other side, like that prayer feels different. Yeah. And I and I've been and I've been prayed over by women who have who understand things that I have gone through that I am going through, and it feels different. Like there's a supernatural difference in that prayer, right? And that's not to say that other prayers aren't powerful, but there's just we go through our hard things so we can help other people go through them. There was a um the, I mean, it's it's a twist on the Good Samaritan, I think a little bit, but there was a joke in a West Wing episode uh where there's a character struggling with uh trauma from an incredibly traumatic event. And his boss and also mentor, and also because it's one of those like dramas where like everyone's, you know, it's like a the lie about the work family, right? But um, not where I work, we have a work family, but other places anyway. Uh and he he tells this joke that says, you know, so a guy's walking down a street and he falls into a pothole, right? He's like walking down whatever avenue and he falls into a hole. And and, you know, his his like a police officer walks by and he goes, Hey, like get me out of here. And like the guy calls it in, right? And and I'm not gonna quote it directly, but like I forget what it is, you know. And then a doctor walks by and he goes, Hey, hey, doc, get me out, get me out, I need help. And he throws a prescription down the hole. And then, you know, maybe, maybe it's a clergyman, a teacher, right? Someone, I think it's probably a clergyman, and you know, and hey, father, father, I'm down here, I need help, get me out. And he writes a prayer and throws it down the hole, right? And then a friend walks by and he goes, Oh my god, thank, thank God. Joe, I'm stuck down here, right? I need help. You know, go get me help. I need a ladder. And Joe jumps in the hole. And he goes, What are you doing, you idiot? Now we're both stuck down here. And Joe goes, Yeah, but I've been down here before and I can show you the way out. And I think like that, that's our whole, that is our, you know, the Westminster Catechism will tell you that our chief end is to enjoy God and glorify him forever, right? Glorify God and enjoy him forever. And it that's true. And I think the way that we do that is by jumping in potholes with people and telling them, I've been here before, I know the way out. And not only do I know the way out, I didn't get out in my own strength. I know the way out because this guy got me out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And he didn't genie wish me out. He walked through the tunnels of the sewers and the muck and the sewage systems, and he had a map in his head, and we sat and we talked and we figured it out. And one day we saw light and we walked out of the sewer system together, and it took a really long time and it was really hard and messy. But somehow I've been main clean by that process.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. Like there's and and so, yeah, I want to glorify God, and I and that is that is our chief purpose. But I do that by making sure other people know that they are loved by him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Right? That's beautiful. That that just is it's worship. Like you are serving other people, you're worshiping the Lord. Absolutely. Hold on.
SPEAKER_02Let me I'm going to leave this open after this whatever.
SPEAKER_00No, no, that's fine. So you were able to reconcile that anger, that hurt, that what you're holding in your heart by setting your hope on eternity, by focusing instead on God's love for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And just sitting in that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Instead of remembering your anger.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Is that right?
SPEAKER_02I yeah. And I think that the other half of figuring out how much God loves you is like you really that that's where the other side of the coin comes in. You have to wrestle with your sin. Like you have to really, I think, and I know this has been true in my walk, that to really, really, really come to terms with how much God loves me. I had to look at what I've done and how I broke his heart. And I have to tell him, I know that broke your heart. And I'm sorry. Yeah. And I don't even know that I would change it because wrestling with it brought me closer to you. So that's a weird metaphysical timey whimey, wibbly wobbly conversation, but but but I can recognize it as sin. I can recognize it as, you know, anger or pride or control or lust or whatever. I can recognize it as I can call sin and I can say that it kept me separate from you. And I want to change and I want to break these patterns that are in me because of the fall. And and you love me enough to help. Yeah. And you love me anyway, and you loved me first, right? The lock screen on my phone is we love because he first loved us. And I tell the kids all the time, I love you because God told me how.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. I I would like when a grown-up says, I love you, it's not just like I love cheeseburgers. It's I love you because the creator of the world showed me how to love someone and he showed me by loving me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. And so I think we can't, like, not in like go, like go woo-hoop, but like we can't love people until we love ourselves, and we can't love ourselves until we understand that God loves us. Truly. Truly. Truly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And we can't understand that God loves us until we actually acknowledge what we've done. Yeah. And what we did to put Christ on the cross. Like I know exactly.
SPEAKER_01And that's that gave me a pit in my stomach. No, but right, but it's uncomfortable. Yeah, it's gross.
SPEAKER_02It should be. But it's been made new. Absolutely. Yeah. Right? And that, and that's what I said. So I ended up, there's, there's a gap in the timeline, but to to connect the linguistic thing, um, I ended up getting baptized at the current church. And I, and it felt like I needed to rededicate. I needed to, it felt like I had been through some things and I had walked through some valleys and I could feel the change and I could see the fruit. And I wanted to celebrate that with this church that I was going to be calling my home church forever. And that's what I said in the basin. I said, I know what I did to put him on that cross, and he is my Lord and he is my savior. And and I want to celebrate that here with you today. And then dunk. Right. And and we all do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02We all know.
SPEAKER_00I do want to know what's in that gap though.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So because you've you've had quite a career and you've never mentioned any of that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's so true. That's so true. So when I moved to Texas, I um, so okay, college. I started, I wanted to be a math teacher, so I was in the math education program. That didn't work out. My brain, I had unmitigated, unmanaged ADD. I had the diagnosis. Um, but and actually, squirrel, not intending that to happen at that point in the story. I went away to college. I went out of town to college, and then life just blew up and I ended up coming home. And um I was able to come home because a guidance counselor saw me, like saw me, saw me, right? Like I was in his office to talk about a grade that I had in class. And when you're it was I went to the street, to the school up the street that shall not be named because we're very competitive. Um I think Pascal is oh, did you also? Were you also a ASU graduate? Yeah. I didn't graduate. I didn't stay long enough to graduate, but there it's a good school. We should get over it. I'm 37. Rivalries are dumb. Um but uh yeah, I I went away to college because I wanted to go away to college, and my first degree was going to be political science, uh, which the academic study of political science and being involved in politics have nothing to do with one another. And I was not going to be successful at the academic study of politics because I did not have the skill set or the willpower or the executive functioning skills to read those texts and write essays about them. I can I can read a tome this big for fun. But if you tell me I have to write an essay about chapter five, I'm not gonna read it and I'm gonna ignore, I'm gonna avoid my instructor forever, and it's bad. It's just bad. So I did college didn't go well the first time I went to college. And uh there's a class you have to take as a freshman that's like basically like welcome to college. It's an actual class with a grade, and I failed even that. And no, everyone flashes that class. No, I just didn't show up. It was bad. Oh man. And uh and I I sh I should have flunked, I properly flunked out the first semester of school. And uh they I was in the honors program with a scholarship, and someone, some I don't remember how, but someone somewhere probably wanted me back, or maybe it was a headcount thing. I don't know, but some strings were pulled and I got back. And uh I had incomplete, my failing grades were converted to incomplete. So I had to finish those classes. I had to also be a full-time student to maintain my scholarship. And somewhere along the way, I got it in my head that everything was going to fail, and that I was, I think it was an unresolved abandonment thing. And so I also got a part-time job just in case I needed to be able to fend for myself, which is ridiculous because I have the most amazing parents on the planet. Um, but the enemy will tell you lies at any age, right? And uh that was just not a tenable schedule, trying to do 30 credits in one semester and have a part-time job. It just it blew up by February. And because I had failed the first semester, they put me the second semester in with the person who ran the whole program, the whole welcome to college program was he was my teacher. And so when I ghosted him, he called me on it. And so he calls me into his office, and I've been avoiding him. And he was like, I can either come to you or you can come to me, but it'll be a lot more fun if you come to me and fine. And um so I did. And um uh that was one of the that was one of the first times that I felt really seen by an adult. And in in a in a funny sort of way, that was that he was he jumped in the hole and he he sat me down, he said, How you doing? And I lied through my teeth. I was like, I'm great, I'm everything's wonderful. How are you today? And he goes, Okay, so that's not true, but I understand why you don't want to tell me, so just sit, I'm gonna tell you my story, sit for a bit. And he told me his story. And then when he finished telling me his story, he said, So I'm gonna ask you again, how you doing? I just lost it. And I told him the truth, and he he made it so that my mom could come up at night and rescue me and get me home. And he pulled a lot of strings and he cut a lot of red tape. And I found out years later I invited him to my college graduation when I did finally graduate. Um and we were able to reconnect, and I was able to tell him, like, you you were a big part in this. And I found out years later that he was reprimanded a little bit. Like it was, it was sort of a like a we could have saved it. And he was like, like he told people, if you make this girl tell her story again, if you make this girl tell anybody else what she's been through, she will run away and we will never get her back. And he was probably right. And so yeah. Um, but that then turned into so then I come home, I go to Pima, shout out to Pima, they're amazing. Everyone should just go, no one should go to college right after high school. Everyone should go to Pima and figure out what you want to be when you grow up. It is a waste of time to go to four-year university when you're 18 and your brain is still developing. That's just my opinion. Um, but I go to Pima, then I transfer to the UA and I want to be a math teacher. And then that, like it was a it was a my everything's been big hops. I find computer science and stuff started to click and it made sense. And um I end up teaching for a year at the U of A because I didn't want to grow up. And I, because I am then teaching, I qu I can get tuition for cheap. So I start taking some master's classes. So I taught after my bachelor's. I take a couple graduate level courses. Um, my year-long contract is up. I switched to just being a graduate student and a TA, so my tuition is still taken care of. So like I really I got a bachelor's and a master's in computer science because I didn't want to grow up. Um it makes me sound a lot fancier than I actually am. I didn't do the thesis option, I didn't do any research. I graded papers the entire time I was there. I took a set of very hard classes. I barely got by on the skin of my teeth. It was, it was hard. Um, and I was just gonna go hide in some university somewhere and be teaching faculty. And a mentor ambushed me on the day of a career fair and told me to go apply. And I was like, oh, you know what? I would, but I don't have my resume with me. I don't he go, well, it's it's funny. We required you to all file them with us, and I have 10 copies in my hand right here. We're walking down to the student union right now, and I'll buy you lunch if you hand all 10 of them out.
SPEAKER_03Oh, God.
SPEAKER_02But it is a theme I'm very it's the best way to get me to do anything is to challenge me um or feed me. And so that was the perfect storm. And uh my resume was optimized for a teaching faculty position, and this was a corporate career field. And um, I got a couple of interviews, but the only company that like really truly looked at me, this has been a theme, uh, was USAA. And like the guy took my resume, the recruiter, he took my resume and he didn't read it. Like most people they scan. He just goes, So tell me about yourself. What are you studying? And I went, Oh, computer science. Why are you studying computer science? Well, actually, I I want to teach computer science. So, like, I don't really know why I'm here today, but my mentor may be come. Uh, and he goes, Why do you want to teach computer science? I go, Well, because everyone should know how computers work, right? And and everyone can be good at computers, it's you know, and the whole time he's holding, so we have this whole conversation. And he goes, I'd like to schedule an interview with you. What and like, and he puts me on his calendar, and then I got a second-round interview rather quickly, and I got the job for after graduation. And I was like, This is not how any of this was supposed to go. And at this, this is the time, like this is I graduated high school 2007. This is probably like 20, I got my undergraduate in 2013, I got my graduate in 2016, and so like I am well into not talking to God. Like, this is but you, but you look at that, and yeah, God's hand is all over it. Like, so you go back and you go, dear lord, how why was I ignoring you? Like those sorts of things only happen when God is like, kid, like this is this is the path. I'm gonna pick your Lego piece up and I'm gonna move it over here, right? So I moved to San Antonio, Texas, which is a beautiful city and has very tasty food, and they've mastered the breakfast taco. And uh uh I worked for USAA for a while, and um, but as is often a theme in my life, I I uh I just I struggled. I struggled with purpose, I struggled with identity, I struggled with and I can look back at it now and be like, well, yeah, because I wasn't talking to the guy who defined it. Like, no wonder I was having trouble. And um I there there were highs at work and there were lows at work, and sometimes it was a bad placement, and sometimes it was a bad work ethic on my part, and sometimes and it sometimes it was a little of all the above.
SPEAKER_00And um so it wasn't necessarily the job, it was the purpose behind the work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I got the job because I was good at it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And and and even and I got hired to be in a more it wasn't a software development role, but we'll say that for the, you know, because it's a giant tree of options, but um uh it was not traditional software development, but it was it was more of a programming, coding, problem solving. And very quickly, I was both really unhappy in that role, and they realized I know how to talk to people. And I had a mentor. There's an older woman who worked there, uh, say, well, like, you know, you can do this, right? Like the thing that, and she was a project manager, and she's like, This is a job, you know. And so then we trans, I transitioned to that, and some things got better, and but much with life it was less than a linear thing. And um, and then so I started in 2016 and then so moved forward a couple of years, and then the world shut down. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you were a project manager. I was a project manager at USAA.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I was technically a scrum master for anyone out there who actually knows how these things work. But I was I was a soccer mom for a bunch of grown-ups. I made sure that they knew what they were doing every day, that they on my good days, right? I I'm laughing, thinking of some former coworkers being like, really, you were hard to find on some days. I know, I'm sorry. I'm I'm well aware of what my failings. But when I was on my game, my job was to uh make sure people knew what they were doing for a living or for the day, and uh and and how that fit into kind of the larger goal for the two weeks and how that two-week goal fit into the three-month goal. And then it was someone else's job to figure out what that three-month goal was and how those three-month goals fit into year and five-year goals. So I would be given three-month goals by a team of people, and then with the group of people who were going to make that goal a reality, we would break that work down into two-week goals, and then those two-week goals would get tasks. And I would every morning I would be like, Do you know what sticky note you're working on today? Do you know what you're doing? Did you eat breakfast? When are you taking lunch? Right. Teaching. And it was teaching for grown-ups, right? It was, and so when people hear that I was a project manager and now I'm I say preschool teacher, I I teach, I I I'm an enrichment teacher, so I'm with all the grades at the school. But like people hear that and they go, that's a jump. And I'm like, it's really not. Just the age of the people I'm taking care of has drastically changed. But what I do every day is this. Chronologically, right?
SPEAKER_01I'm sure some people acted like elementary school kids.
SPEAKER_02And um and I mean I can remember there being meetings where they weren't operating well, nothing, nothing was going well, no one was behaving, and I could tell that people were hungry. Like when you know your people well enough, right? When your job is a caretaker and you know the people you're taking care of well enough, you can be like, I know what's wrong.
SPEAKER_01You didn't eat lunch. Have a Snickers.
SPEAKER_02You all have a Snickers, you're not you, right? And I distinctly remember sometimes just lying through my teeth and telling, just being like, oh my gosh, you guys, I'm so sorry. I didn't eat lunch. Can we take a break? Can we all can we turn this into a walking meeting? Can we walk down the hall to Starbucks and get a snack? I'm so sorry. I think I need caffeine. Um, would you mind? Because like you cannot, as a grown adult, look at another grown adult who knows more than you and be like, you're grumpy, you need to eat your lunch, you're hangry, go fix it. That's that is not leadership. Right? That is that's not kind. Right. Um, and but I could, and and I'll always drink a coffee. Um, ADD love caffeine. Um, and and but those to soften it, to make it a we problem, not a right, and can we go down the hall? I need a protein bar, let's turn this into a walking meeting. We're not using the whiteboard, right? Um, that that was my job.
SPEAKER_01That right.
SPEAKER_02Just 20 24-7, right? Um, and I loved it. I I loved that part of it. That that it it became really hard to do it remotely, um, which ended up happening. I mean, and and it was actually in some ways, it was easier to do remotely when everyone was remote. Um, but then I so personal timeline and still um okay, so while I was in Texas, I started going back to church, right? Um and so there was sort of this intersection a little bit there. Um, I also think that I was not designed to work with grown-ups. I think my purpose in life is to work with children. And so, um, and I I just just because you go back to church doesn't mean you've talked to God about all the things that you need to talk to God about. So there was still sort of this cycle of self-worth and and identity issues and um being with the wrong person. Um and uh and so it it was it was messy for a bit. It was really messy for a bit, and um and then we all go remote and um and then we're still remote in June of 2021, and I was alone in an apartment and miserable and not and and still doing my best to be plugged into a church, but like that was a weird season for everyone everywhere, right? That was just weird.
SPEAKER_00I was just thinking how many people can identify with that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And and it was like the the the the the basic axioms of how the world works changed, yeah, right? Overnight. Overnight. And uh and I was so lonely. And um again, this could be one of those things that I remember that's not completely accurate, but my memory of it is that my parents had been trying to visit me for a while. They'd they had they had quite literally rescued me from a bad relationship, and I had been out of that relationship for some time and they had been wanting to visit, and um and the pandemic changed that. And then fast forward to the middle of 2021, and they want to visit me, and I don't want to be seen because I wasn't taking care of myself and my apartment showed it, my body showed it. It just uh and I kept putting off excuses. And then mom is like, for Father's Day, your dad wants you to let him come out to Texas and bring you home. I kind of have to say yes to that, don't I? Like, I can't be like, no, dad, I'm not getting you the present you want for this man never asks for anything. Um, and so he comes out and I and I so I talk to my manager and say, you know, if I'm gonna work from a couch, can I work from a parent's couch? Like I miss my family. And I get back to town, and uh and it was like scales fell from my eyes. Like I just we are made to be with other people. We are made to be in community with other people. And God gave me those parents for a reason. And there have been so many times over the course of my life where it has been so clear that they were uniquely equipped to help me deal with whatever it was I needed to deal with, whether that was a bad relationship or a bad career decision or a bad personal decision. Like they have just, I need them. I don't just need, I need, I currently need them. And they're my parents. And um, and and I I needed to be around them. I was, it was a really not fun time. I think it was not a fun time for everybody. So I get home, and what quickly is supposed to be a one-way, you know, we drove, you know, I still have my apartment in Texas, but was supposed to be just like a sort of open-ended visit, turned into like, so the whole team has voted and you're staying in Arizona. Like team members were mentioning to my manager how much happier I seemed.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And how like other, like, I was how old would I have been at the time? I mean, I was it was early 30s. And so you have, but like there were people on the team who were more seasoned in their career, yeah, who could take a parent's eye to it and go, okay, that kid's happy now. Don't make her come back. Like they advocated on my behalf. So sweet. And so I got permanent work remote status. And um, and and that was great. And everyone working remote. If if if your job is to keep track of what people are working on and how they're doing it and what the requirements are and what work has to be done before it, and what work's gonna be done at if everyone is stuck at home, and you all have to hop on a call together and have those conversations. But as people start to trickle back to the office, they can have those conversations at Starbucks without you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it it just, it was hard. It was untenable. It was really difficult. And uh, and then some other people in my job class were walking away from that for for similar reasons. It was hard. It was they didn't want to, um, I had more on my plate than I could handle, didn't know how to say that. Uh, and it just got to a point where I was getting burned out and there was just there was some tension that I didn't, I didn't want to I didn't want to address head on. And so I found a local job and gave my notice. And um, and and I at all this time, I'm trying to remember, I'm trying to think of the timeline. So I come home in June of 2021, and I think around November, I started, because I thought I was just visiting. And then October, we go back to Texas to close out my apartment. So then once I'm like I've accepted the fact that I've moved back home and with my parents, which I'm still there today. I love it. It's great. They like having me at home too because they have a built-in house sitter. Um uh, but then I started going back to my childhood church. So the the so then I was attending so Episcopal Church as a kid, decade of silence. It's like the 400 years where we don't know what happened, right? Um, and then uh some the church in San Antonio was great. There was some ebb and flow, depending on the relation. I was in a relationship that didn't want me at that church, which should have been telling, but because that church was good for me. Um and uh and then came home, went back to my childhood church, and and it just it wasn't quite the same.
SPEAKER_00Uh you weren't the same.
SPEAKER_02I wasn't the same. Yeah. Yeah, I really I wasn't the same. And it was it was a lot smaller, um, headcount-wise, and there were just some things that had changed, and it it got to a point where I kind of realized it wasn't um it just it it wasn't the right place for me at that time. And um, and uh there was an organist at the church who was also the choir director, and I got plugged into the choir and the music ministry, and he was a he was a really like academic, so we like he loved to talk theology stuff. And um, and I I'm trying to remember what year it was. It was probably 2022. I challenged myself to actually read the whole Bible. Like it was the, so I've you know, known God for quite some time, but I I still would argue that I didn't truly have a relationship with God yet, that I didn't know him, know him. Um, and uh I slogged through Genesis. I put it off for a while. I don't think I read any by I don't think I read any scripture for the entire month of January. Um, and and I should look up the dates of where Holy Week fell, right the week before Easter. But I slogged through Genesis because I was doing it like a project manager. Like I told myself I was like, you're gonna read this many chapters a day and check, you have read your Bible. Good job, kid, and move on. And right, so and and now I love Genesis now, right? I'm not knocking Genesis, but it was it was just it was dense and it was a lot, and the genealogies are intense. And um, and then I get to Exodus either right on the beginning of Holy Week or like very close to the beginning of Holy Week, and I decided like the book nerd that I am and the the cerebral beast that I wanted to finish Exodus this week. Like I wanted to force myself to finish Exodus so that I could understand the historical and theological implications and political implications of Christ being crucified on the Passover. Like, quite literally, it was like, I wanna, I've only ever watched The Prince of Egypt, so I should actually read the book so that I know what really happened. And I want to understand what this means for Christ to have been crucified on the Passover, like the political act that that was. And it was one. Um, but there's a lot more in Exodus than just that. And God and Moses running away over and over again and not talking to God for a while. Yeah. And uh being the prodigal son. Yeah. Like Moses is a prodigal son, right? And he is because he is very specifically sent back to his homeland. Like God's like, no, you're gonna go back and you're gonna fix this and you're gonna free our people, right? Like, and I know he like you're gonna free my children, but like those are Moses' people, right? And he is sent back home. And when he's sent back home, he doesn't want to go. And and it was that that the passages about the work that Moses had to do with Pharaoh and and noticing that, and I probably have them. Mom gave me an old study Bible and some translation that I don't even remember, it's on my shelf, that um, that was like really ratty and beat up. And she was like, do whatever you want to it. And so, like, it has tons of highlights and tons of underlines. And this was where it started. I started noticing the uh, you know, that God, that Pharaoh hardened his heart. And then all of a sudden it switches to God hardening Pharaoh's heart. And I was like, you're telling me the bad guy from the movie was a bad guy because God made him a bad guy? What? I don't like that. And I got really mad. And but for some reason, and I think it's because God took a hold of my heart and he lit my heart on fire for scripture. I dug in and I went to got questions because uh, because the organist and the there was there were some people in my life that had kind of shaped, sort of, here are some good sources to go to for when you have big questions. And so I was reading about, you know, what does it mean for God to harden Pharaoh's heart? And God says, like he gives the reason. He's not being capricious, he's not being like he says, He is you, you are going to go and you are going to ask him to save my people, and he's going to save no so that when you save them, the whole world will know that I did it. Right. Like no one will think, yeah, no one will think that Pharaoh had a change of heart. No one, like, he doesn't say that explicitly, right? And I'm paraphrasing, but God tells him you're not gonna, it's not gonna be easy. This is gonna be really hard and challenging, and it's going like it's going to be so that everyone knows that I did this. And I was like, interesting. And I could have looked at that and been like, see, you are a selfish jerk. But that's not, that's not who God is. And and do I still have some questions about, you know, is is that is the Passover a really hard passage to think about? Absolutely. Killing the firstborn sons of every household in Egypt, that's awful. And I would never want to look at someone who's wrestling with God being a loving God and reading that passage and being like, don't worry about it. That's brutal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so what did you get out of it? What did it teach you?
SPEAKER_02I think it taught, I think it, I think it reminded me that God is God and I am not. Yeah. And and that God is going to send me into places that I might not want to go, and that like that God really is in control. And and uh and it sent me, it sent me down this big path of re of reading, because I'm a I'm a cerebral person, like the relational stuff always comes later. And so it sent me down this path of understanding like what does it mean for God to be sovereign? What is it if I say that God is Lord over my life, what does that actually mean? So what is okay? So then I had all those questions of, so do I have free will? And what am I choosing and what am I not choosing? And what is God doing? And did God ever harden my heart? And um that's why I love Sunday school because kids ask me those questions and I get to go, I don't know, we'll ask them together someday, or we'll be worshiping. It's fine. Um, but I think it really forced me to come to terms with the fact that, like, he's a really big God. He's a really, really big God, and we can have a really intimate relationship with a really, really big God. But I like he has had a hand over my life this whole time. Yeah. And he has been guiding me and shaping me and making me and sending me. And even when I was throwing a tamper tantrum, he was sending me places. I just didn't recognize him as that. And and I think it's, you know, sometimes I look at my story and think it's proof that God can use stubborn people and God can, God's gonna use whoever he wants to use. The Bible is evidence of that. But I think sometimes when we look at the people God uses and we see where they end up, like we have their whole story and they're in the hall of faith, like they're in Hebrews 11, and we're like, yeah, they were a butthead, but like look at what they did later.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes I think, you know, we're we're still in process and we're still being sanctified, and we're there's probably a spot for us in the hall of faith, but you know how they ended up there in the hall of faith.
SPEAKER_00Those men, all of them, started off poorly. Yes. It was obvious that they were men that struggled with some sin in their life, yeah, right? Yeah, but what separated them out was they heard God and they said, Yes, Lord, and they actually went and followed the direction that God guide them, guided them in. Like they walked out their faith in obedience, yeah. In obedience, yeah, regardless of where that took them, yeah, the struggles they faced, or yes, they they all had those those bad days where you know Moses hit the rock in anger, you know.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it was not perfect, and Noah was not perfect.
SPEAKER_00Abraham was not perfect, and but they still walk the walk, put their faith in the Lord, and let him be their like I don't want to say guiding star, because that's not the right word.
SPEAKER_02Truly. Like Lord, Lord, right?
SPEAKER_00Lord, Lord, here I am. Yes, how would you use me?
SPEAKER_02Send me, yeah, right? And um, and the so in and around this, you know, getting ready for Holy Week, there's a there's a beautiful service. Uh uh, there's a liturgy in the Episcopal tradition for Monday Thursday, which is typically where foot washing happens. Um and um, and and what I love too about Holy Week is like when you have services for lots of the days, you get that there's this really transformative like contemplation that happens about Christ's last week on earth. Yeah. Right. Like it's not just Palm Sunday to Easter Sunday, like stuff happened. Right, right, right. And um, and and sometimes I miss celebrating that stuff. And so, but I was part of the choir and we were singing, we had prepared this song that was um rooted in Psalm 51. And it kind of feels like a funeral dirge, and it's it um so Psalm 51 is the psalm that David writes after uh is it Nathaniel or but the but the the prophet comes and has uses the whole parable of the man that steals the other man's sheep, right? To teach him about how awful he was stealing Bathsheba, right? And um, and uh and it's wash me throughly. I actually I I have trouble memorizing the psalm because I know the words to the song so well, and the song is a reference to the psalm. But the first couple of lines that we would repeat, it's wash me throughly from my wickedness and forgive me all of my sin. And then the sopranos keep that, and the altists go, wash me truly from my wickedness and forgive me all of my sin, for I acknowledge my faults, acknowledge my faults. And the chord that you hit on faults is like really jarring. And it's just this like it's in a minor key, it's sad, it's and we sang it at the Maundi Thursday service, and just to just to like so Psalm 51 has been my favorite psalm for a long time because it's I think that was the beginning of the sort of like my sin is ever before me, right? Like I'm going, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to let you know the the different churches will do it different ways, but this was who whoever just got their feet washed would wash your feet. And so it's like I'm I and I started crying walking up there to get my feet washed. And, you know, and and it's like I I am a sinner. I am, and I I don't mean it like I'm worthless, right? But I have done things that have broken God's heart, and yet like I am, I would be overwhelmed by that, but there was a plan and there was a purpose, and God sent his son to pay that debt for me. And and and I I've done some big things, and but that's not what defines me, right? And so I think that was the beginning. So, like going back to the church in Texas was the beginning of me being in community in the body, and there were some beautiful things that happened at that church. It shaped my opinion of outreach, it shaped my opinion of community, it it taught me a lot. Being in that church taught me a lot about being held accountable by your fellow believers and doing life with them and all of it, which I still haven't perfected, but um, and and then being in that season and uh and at the in the choir and singing that song, like that started the transformation of it being going from head to heart. And I just I wept, I wept openly, and I and that was yeah, that was probably like 2022. And so sometimes I think like I'm still a baby Christian, I've known about God for a long time, but I'm but working on the relational part, the you know, the phone a friend part. Like that's only been a handful of years, really. And um, yeah, and and so the I I'm glad I went back to my childhood church because I clearly needed to, right? That was a catalyst and an environment, and um, and music has always been a really important part of my life, and worship has always like I grew up dancing, I grew up doing musical theater, and I've always been able to express myself better through movement and dance. It's why I do groove crew for VBS, um, which is a very different kind of expression, but it's fun. And uh yeah, and if there came a point where I wanted to leave that church, and I was looking for something with more exegetical preaching. I wanted there were just things I was looking for, and I found it at FCC, and uh um and that has that's been a whole wild ride. That's like a whole other like that's like you zoom the lens in real quick. Like so there's been some amazing things that have happened because of that church. I kids ministry has saved my life, and what what I feel like, yeah, um and and I don't I'm getting to know part of your story, right?
SPEAKER_00But I don't know your whole story, but I feel like you really came into your purpose in that place. Yes. And that's what I want to touch on because when you were working at uh USAA excellent career, making excellent money. Yeah, I I know you're saying it's you were project manager, but uh you don't like glorify the the job, but people work their whole careers to attain that level of a yeah um prist I don't want to say for for the paycheck, but to have a title like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00That that's a sought after title.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you left that behind you because it wasn't driving you like you it sounds like you enjoyed the work, but it because it didn't fulfill you, it didn't give you purpose, it was easy to walk away from.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. And I think in the moment of walking away, it was the the tension with the people. Um and and and just knowing like this is not a good fit. But I couldn't put my finger on it that well at the time. But yeah, I think um I mean, and and to to the other side of that coin is you know, there are times where it like that's still a skill set I have, that's still work I can do, and I would make more money than I'm making now. I just would, right? I would not, I lovingly joke that I get paid in pennies and hugs because I do. Right. Right. And I boast of my treasure is stored in heaven, right? Amen, sister. And I but I I don't ever want to leave this space. I the the space of teaching, and yeah, and and there have been times where I've thought, should I be practical and should I go back? And what keeps me from going back is is that what keeps me from from even considering that is the sort of like, but my soul will be sad. Yes, my soul will be sad, and I will not be honoring my God by going back.
SPEAKER_00So so walk me through how you found your your purpose there.
SPEAKER_02I was I was voluntold. Um, so I I come to FCC and it and the first time I attended, it was a little bit of um church shopping, right? It was like, okay, I know what I'm looking for. I don't know where it will be. Let's try this. And um, and there were some signs really early on that it that it had a lot of the qualities I was looking for. And it had a decent sized children's ministry. It has exploded since then, and it is something only God could do. Like you look at the number of families and kids that are showing up, and you're like, okay, dad, I get it. What's funny? I held the sticky note. Um, when the first time it felt like the kids' ministry exploded, I wrote on a sticky note, you prayed for a living church, and it was both a reminder that God answers prayer and a reminder that I asked for this and that I need to get busy, right? Because I asked for something and God made it happen. And I wasn't the only one asking for it. But like in my own, like personally, right? Like it wasn't Lord, grow the children's ministry of this church. It was Lord, I want a living church. And that became a tagline for a lot of things that I had been working on him with and talking to him about. And that manifested in my mind, like the fruit of that prayer was the children's ministry. And I got involved with children's ministry because I was still working in a corporate space and I and attending FCC, and we had a VBS, and there was a call for volunteers at VBS. And so I volunteered and I was on the groove crew. I wasn't leading the groove crew, but so I was, if you're not, we don't know the lingo, the groove crew, the people up on stage jumping around like monkeys. Uh, but we'd lead worship, and it's it's a very different way to lead worship than it is with grown-ups. And I it's I prefer that kind of worship when we're dancing and jumping, and there's disco lights and fog machines and um and uh so I was on that and I was a group leader. Um and then pretty quickly the children's ministry director, uh like Bauman told me, I could have said no, but also how do you say no to that woman? You you don't. You don't say no to her because she is so faithful and she prays about everything. And so by the time that she is approaching someone to ask them for something, it's like this need this is gonna happen. This can happen with me or this can happen without me, but this is going to happen. And and she leaves that ministry with so much grace and so much dignity. And I tell her all the time she's a really easy person to follow and about. I would follow her anywhere. I would, without question, because I have so much trust and faith that she is following Christ. So where she is going, I want to go because she is, she is clinging to the hem of his robe too, and she is following Christ, and she is and and her heart is on fire for children. And so it the children's ministry was growing. There was a there was probably a bump from VBS, and we had one kid's room, um, the kingdom, and it was for kids from I think five to eleven, and they wanted to split it in half and like at so we had like a two, threes, and fours room, I think. And so they were gonna pull the four-year-olds over, make a four, five, six, seven room. We split it after at a grade, so like ages can get anyway. Um they wanted to split the room and they needed like dedicated leaders for that room. And so um another teacher at the school, I wasn't teaching at the school at the time, but a teacher at the school was was kind of pulled to be um the lead for the kingdom on Sundays for the big kids. And I was the lead for the sunshine room. And there's there was a room in the building that had a really pretty sun mural on, and it's the music room when it says school, and it's my Sunday school classroom. And so I was I was called and I said yes. And um, and it has grown so much. We were only at two services at the time, and I would the I a system I love at our church is attend one, attend one, serve one. So if you are volunteering and if you are serving, you have to attend a service. So I I I was responsible and I was held accountable for the success of that room, but there were faithful volunteers in the other service so that I could go to church so that I could be guaranteed um time to go. But weekly I taught Bible and led that class, and we're now at three services, and so we have I have a co-teacher and she's fantastic. She's a preschool teacher at the school. Um, and the big kid room has a co-teacher, and then there's a service that's run by volunteers, and we're still busting at the seams. Um but it it it started with an act of obedience to you know, saying yes to a woman that was asking me to do something, and it just it felt like she was asking me because God asked her, right? That's amazing. So and I'm and then that's the kids are just everything. The kids are my whole life. The it it really feels like my in a beautiful way, my life is really defined right now by the children in it and that that I that I get to love, you know.
SPEAKER_00But you didn't just serve on Sunday, you made it your yes, so that was fun.
SPEAKER_02I it got to a point where I was in between, um, I wasn't working, I was in between jobs and I was hunting for jobs, and I was so plugged into the church. So I was, I was, it was Tech land and I didn't have work. And uh, which is a long story, that's not it's distraction. Um the principal at the school, so I was a lead teacher for the four to six, sevens-ish class, and I the children's ministry director is also a preschool teacher at our school, and um, and so and her preschool aide had to step away for a planned amount of time, and I didn't have work. And so she asked me one day, like, would you be interested in like we don't normally get subs, but it's it's a long term, it's a planned, like it's that's a long time to not have a sub. And you already work so well with this teacher, and you you you're with the like a lot of you'll know a lot of the kids. And I was like, Really? You wouldn't mind? And I thought it was just going to be filling in for my friend while I continued to look for a real job. Uh God knows what was it's he had other plans. He had other plans, and his plans are way better. Um, and so yeah, um, so I took the temp role, and then there were still some odd jobs to have around the school, like when my friend came back and and she phased in her work, and so she was a preschool aide during the day and ran the after school program in the afternoon. And so then we did it where um she was working half days for a bit, coming back and then full days. And when she was working full days, there was just more work to do around the school. The school year was ending, like they needed paperwork done, and you know, so and so's out. Will you sub and just things like that? And uh um, and oh hey, we have an extra set of hands on payroll. Can you go set up for this event that's about to happen? And um, by the end of that school year, the Spanish teacher was going to step away to spend more time with family and help with the family business. I speak Spanish, I don't consider myself bilingual, but they found out because I had been talking to a parent of a child that was more comfortable with Spanish, and I would talk to that child in Spanish when she would the preschooler.
SPEAKER_00Um now you're the Spanish teacher.
SPEAKER_02And now I'm the Spanish teacher. And so, um, but so at the time it was like, hey, by the way, do you you know that the school year was ending, they didn't have a position for me, I didn't know it was coming, and then they needed a Spanish teacher. And so, right, and then there was gonna be some changes to the after school program, and then they very graciously built me a full-time schedule around that. So that's how I became the lunch lady and an aide and uh this and uh um, but yeah, it was it was great. How amazing how like like it's it even that and I will say I was I was at a point in my walk where in the moment I was like, God, you're so cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like they designed something for you because that's where God wanted you to be, and they were being obedient in and keeping you there.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, that's and I and I told them too like I I am looking for full-time work, yeah. Right. And hourly it was gonna be a pay cut from anything I could earn, which which is fine, it's fine. Um, and because of that, I was like, I I need full-time work, right? Right. And so they were like, we'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And they did. And it was, and last year's schedule was it was hard the last school year. Um, and and we've made improvements this year and streamlined some things. And it's also just first year teaching is hard. It was hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, I I had to learn. I also know a lot of children overlapping from the church and from life and from school, and how how to wear those different hats is is still something I'm working on, right? Like how to be like, I'm not in auntie mode. I'm, you know, I am your auntie, but I am not in auntie mode. What a cool opportunity to teach boundaries. You know, like you have to know how to employ them for yourself.
SPEAKER_01No, for yourself. But then also like while you're learning it, you can say, hey, let me, let me let me let me know. Let me let you in a little secret. Yes. I also don't know what is going on, but we'll figure it out together.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. And uh, yeah, and like you're, you know, and we there was a moment earlier this week with a kid that I love dearly. Um, and and but that that was having an emotional moment and saw my, you know, interacting with me and saw my face and saw Auntie and reacted as such. Yeah. And uh his teacher came over and was like, no, it's school hours. She's like, she's here in this building. School is happening, she's a teacher, you will treat her like a teacher. And then lovingly told me, she was like, You need to tell him that. Like you, you, you need to. And I was like, You're right. I was like, no, sorry. But no, but and also, right? Like, we're in the business of discipling and raising the next generation, and they need to know that. They need like that's how old was this kid? Four. Yeah, maybe five.
SPEAKER_01Sorry. Nope. Come here, come here, baby.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Emotional than following directions. Well, no, he it was he wasn't sad. He was being grumpy and he wanted to hit me.
SPEAKER_01Then he was like in his feelings.
SPEAKER_02No, he was in his feelings and I was hugging on him, and then he would like all of a sudden very he didn't want the hug, he wanted to be mad. And it was like, no, you don't get to, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, I took because I I agree with you too, right? I think um, I think like there's a concept in educational circles, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? I'm very familiar with I'm sure with the work that you do, but like for anyone who doesn't know the term, it's basically it's it's a it's a taxonomy that basically like it's a list of things of needs that says essentially your basic needs have to be accounted before before your higher level needs can be accounted for. So if you're hungry, why are you talking to someone about their grades? Like if a kid is sad, right? And so yeah, emotional safety has to come first. Um yeah, definitely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I guess if you're just being mean.
SPEAKER_02If you're just being mean, emotional safety also could be so your physical thing, yeah. But um, but yeah, and so it's like it has radically altered the course of my life. God has radically altered the course of my life by putting me there.
SPEAKER_01But has also prepared you for it. Yes, even the most crazy being a computer scientist, yeah, whatever you whatever that is, a binary linguist. Like, who even knows all the things. But but to go from something so technical to something so relational, yeah, is only he only he could do it. Could have done that. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's wild. And I've always wanted to be a teacher, be involved in school in some way. And I've also, this is this is probably gonna be part of the next season, but I've also always wanted to work in some way or form in foster care or in right, like it just absolutely feels like it's again being uniquely equipped, right? I can I can look at a kid and go, I know it looks like I've got everything together. And I kind of do know, but I know what it feels like to I know what abandonment feels like. And and there's there's a whole other story there, but I'm I'm grateful. Um, and and I'm exactly with the family I needed to be with. And I did, I did have a moment, I I was able to meet my birth mother, and so I was able to get some closure from that. And that was orchestrated by my mom because she's a superhero. Yeah. And uh, and you know, but like have the conversation and go like, so what happened? And so I got to find out some of the circumstances, and and she has children, and so I I I don't want to get into too much detail for that just because the internet is forever. But but it was a healing moment to kind of like God even redeemed that, yeah. Right. Like he even had a way to say, like, you're gonna get the answers to your questions. You're just 10, you don't get them right now, right? You don't, you're not allowed to have the answers yet, but you'll get the answers when you're old enough and mature enough to handle them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you have an incredible story. You've been on quite quite a journey. Um, you shared with us early on about what you would tell a child about purpose and love, right? Um but there are parts of your story that not everyone can identify with, yeah. Parts of your story that people can identify with, but one of the things that I think is is universal is purpose. Right? I I we long to have um a legacy. Sometimes that's that's our kids, and sometimes that's just uh the work that we do. We want to have a meaning behind the everyday work that we do. Yeah. So what is your advice to people about finding purpose in their life?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Um how do they think that can be hard because like the the internal conflict I'm feeling right now is that some I I think I think it's important that it's purpose in our life and not purpose in our work because you don't always get both, right? You have to earn a paycheck, like you have to, and I think and sadly, sometimes when you chase the careers that give you purpose in your work, you like it's sometimes you don't make a lot of money. And and I think I'm very fortunate and blessed to be able to pursue a line of work where I feel purpose in it. And um so like I I don't know, I think that's just part of what I'm trying to process right now is you know there has to be a pocket of your life where you're at peace and you feel like you're doing what you were made to do, and you're you're able to use skills that like could only have come from your creator, right? Um I just I finally I just know that for some people it's not gonna end in a sort of way where it's like, and then I get to do that for a living, right? And I want to hold space for those people too, right? Because everyone has a purpose here on this earth and everyone should feel like some part of their day is fulfilling that purpose. Um when I wasn't doing work that I loved but was good at, I really clung to some of Elizabeth Elliott's writings and like the idea that like that this job is a gift, work is a gift to labor and to do work is something that happened in the garden, right? Like there's a Bible study we're doing at church on Wednesday nights as a group of women, and there was a passage in there talking about like labor and labor happening in the garden, and and that, and that is good, right? And to work is good. So I'm I think it, I don't know, I'm rambling a little bit to answer to think through your question, but it probably starts with how you define purpose and anything we do can glorify God. Um and we can choose to do things that make it really hard to glorify God, right? So it's it's probably a chicken, it might feel like a chicken and the egg thing, but it's probably got to start with well, how how easy is it for me to glorify God where I am? And and is that using my giftings and talents that were given to me by him? And then that's probably where the synergy comes of like I am fulfilling my purpose here on this earth. And for people who feel like they're in a season where they can't do that, we all have the purpose of, you know, I again the Westminster Catechism to enjoy God, enjoy God and glorify him forever. And so if you can find a pocket to do that, like there's like a there's like a big purpose and a little purpose, right? Like the the my little purpose is to help disciple children. I just know that. Um and I even think it's very specifically helpful, helping to disciple other people's children. Like I I I truly believe I am meant to be a professional aunt. Like I love my role as auntie. It's it's my favorite thing in the whole world to love on other people's kids and to and to do it in a way. I I was talking to my mom once about um, you know, I want to be the kind of grown-up that other grown-ups can trust with their kids, right? Um, because it's not just loving on kids, it's loving on kids in a way where their parents are still honored and their parents are still held up as the ultimate authority in their lives. And how do you, how do you help a kid complain about mom and dad while still making sure that mom and dad are honored? Because like mom and dad are human and teenagers are gonna be annoyed. Like they're gonna be like, this isn't fair. And if you're the grown-up that always takes moms and dad, mom and dad's side, like if you're just like, well, here, let me let me parent splain to you, right? They're not gonna talk to you. And I am not about to agree with a 13-year-old that, you know, mom is so unfair. It's like, well, so so how do you walk that line of like, I hear you and I see you and I remember what that's like. And, you know, I don't know everything that's going on right now, but I know your mom and I know she loves you so much. So what if maybe you should ask her these questions, right? And so you like send them back, right? And that's that's hard. But I've I've always wanted, I've always wanted to be that. I had adults in my life sprinkled throughout my story that did that. I had people in my life that spoke highly of my parents and that and that created a space for me to be away from them and process things and wrestle with big questions. And, you know, and so maybe, maybe part of it is that I'm trying to be, maybe this is an answer to the question. I think all of us as grown-ups, I think we we all try to become the grown-up we wanted, we needed in our life or we wanted to be. And maybe that's maybe that seed that's planted is actually part of the purpose that God has designed for us, right? And and maybe that connects together the idea that we go through trials so that we can help people go through them, right? Because when I was a kid, I needed adults in my life that were going to honor my parents and were going to point me back to them. There was there were messes, there was stuff, and uh, and I was a runner, and um and now I get to be that kind of grown-up. I don't know. Yeah, that was not concise. I'm never concise. You knew this though when you told me to come here.
SPEAKER_00I I think that that's a great answer, really. Um I think a part of that is just acknowledging that there's a God. You're made for a purpose, and when you form a relationship with him, it it's not necessarily a relationship where it's a list of do's and don'ts that you have to follow. It's a personal one-on-one relationship like you have with your parents, yeah, where they're going to lead you in a way that is best for you, and they have a plan, and when you follow that plan, you find a certain amount of peace, fulfillment, joy, and just Being in that space, knowing that you were made for such a time as this, yeah, and you can glorify God in working out that space that He has for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Does that make sense? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think because it is so relational, when you're at a point where you're like, okay, what am I supposed to do? We're supposed to love people. That's it. Right? We're supposed to we're supposed to love our God with our heart, body, mind, and soul, and love our neighbor as ourselves. And whether and if you want to do that in the if you're in a position of leadership in the workplace and you can do that in the workplace, great. We also all talk to other humans all day, every day.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And we I think that our our chief purpose is to love people because we've been loved. And you know, and like I like when you get into when you really start to dig into forgiveness, one of the books that I read this summer with friends was Unpacking Forgiveness. And one of the big tenets is it actually it spends like the whole first chunk of the book just looking at how do you get right with God and what does that look like. And let's understand how God has forgiven you. Because if you can't accept that God has forgiven you, you're not really gonna ever be able to forgive anybody.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Because it's a zero-sum game still, right? And the math of God's forgiveness does not make sense. Somebody else paid for my crime.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it was a crime, it was a crime against God, multiple crimes against God. And someone else paid for that. And someone not like my crimes didn't get added to his tab. He had a perfect and spotless and blameless life. He was God incarnate. And and he paid my tab. He paid all of our tabs. And so, like when like if you you have to wrestle with that first. And and then once you do that, you are equipped with the supernatural ability to see people at their lowest and go, but you are loved and you are worthy and you are chosen, and and you're not an accident, and you were here on purpose. And whatever avenue we choose to love people, like however we decide to, whatever age we specialize in, whatever you know, trial we're trying to get them through, whatever, like it's it loving people is how we love God, right? And I mean, and Christ told us what you do to the least of these you've done to me. Loving people is how we love God.
SPEAKER_01And it's so hard. So hard. Like, I truly love people. Love, love, love people. And it is one of the hardest things to do. Yes. Because people will let you down. Yes. People are flawed and they can self-serving and mean. And we are sin is real. And love well. And it is so hard. But it's so rewarding. Yeah. Because when when it clicks, when the person realizes, oh, that that's what loving me looks like. And we, and if they're non-believers, then we get to be a reflection of of God and and how Jesus loves us. And yeah, it is it is probably one of the greatest gifts that God gives us as human beings is to love one another. Yeah. And just like what you said, no matter the the age or the situation that somebody is in, loving them the way that that God has taught us to love is such such a gift. And it is so hard to do.
SPEAKER_02It's too hard to do. And the there was a bishop in San Antonio that had this prayer that I started to pray daily and have prayed daily for the most part ever since. Um Lord, let me see the world with your eyes, hear it with your ears, and love it with your heart, break your heart for what breaks mine. And that is a dangerous prayer to pray. Oh yeah. Because he will do it. He will do it. And he did it. Like I know that the fruit in my life is in large part because of that prayer.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I asked and he answered, he would bet, you know? And um, yeah. But and and something the the other thing too is like I think that when part of why it has to start with our own personal relationship with God. And we have to, and we don't need to get perfect because we're never gonna, but we need to get right with him, is because people need to be able to believe us. Yeah. Believers or non-believers alike. People need to be able to believe us. When I sit down with someone and I go, I love you, yeah, and I know what you're going through, it's going to be okay. If if we don't act in a loving way in most of our interactions with that person, or in if they see us act in an unloving way with other people, right? Or if they see us speak in an unloving way about other people when they're not there, that undermines our credibility.
SPEAKER_01It's exactly what Pascal started off with. You know, there are people who are in authority or not in authority, um, who claim to be one thing, to act one way in front of the camera. Yes. But then when it's behind closed doors or when you think no one's looking, yeah. What is your character then? Yes. And that's exactly how Pascal opened this up to introduce us to you that your character when no one's looking is exactly what it should be to reflect our Lord and Savior and our creator, the being that loves us more than we could even love each other. And you reflect that, and that's beautiful and um admirable. And I'm so grateful that I got to sit down and I learned a lot from you right now. Like, it is so amazing to hear you divulge your heart and just like I learned so much right now about how I could get better at loving people. So thank you for your vulnerability and opening up and sharing. And as a parent, to have a trustworthy adult. Yeah. Yeah. Is all a parent could ask for. So to know that there's at least one person in this world that's intentional about that is amazing. And those kids and families that are in your life are so lucky to have you. I cry all the time.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna be great friends. One something I tell the kids every day after Spanish. We end Spanish. We get through all the routines, we end Spanish with a bunch of things, but we end it no matter what with me saying teamo tanto, pero el dios, te amo más. I love you so much. And then they all go, God loves you more. And it's true, right? Yeah. And yeah. How else? What else are we doing?
SPEAKER_00Maybe we should end our podcast that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Team M tanto, pero El Dios, te amo muchas. I love you so much.
SPEAKER_00I love you so much.
SPEAKER_02God loves you more. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for having me. I had fun. Absolutely.
