SPEAKER_05 0:01

Hello, hello, and welcome back to Made for Christ. Alyssa here, um, and we've got Pascal behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello, hello. Wonderful to be back.

SPEAKER_05 0:13

Um, we also have two familiar faces to the podcast. We've got Kelsey and Kelly. Welcome, ladies, to Made for Christ. So to get the ball rolling, we're gonna do that high ho high ho cheeria. No. What is that? Hi Low Buffalo.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Hi Low Buffalo, and um you're you're probably gonna say, let's cut this on the edit floor, but but no, we're we're keeping this.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

We'll play Hiho Cheeria later, I guess. We can keep it, Pascal. Bloopers are everything sometimes. So yeah, we can start with um a hi from the week or the past or even the last time we saw each other. Hello, and then something fun, interesting, crazy. Uh oh so I can start. Um my hi. This is gonna sound silly, you guys. But I lost my job on Monday, and it has been a long time coming. And uh what's so great is that I've just been in constant prayer with the Lord over this for months and months, and I remember just like laying in bed, just crying and feeling just like crying out, Lord, what do I do? What do I do? And so clearly uh this thought came to my mind that was when you're fired, that's when your assignment is over. And normally, I don't know how the Lord talks to you guys. Mine's not always audible, but it's like I have these ideas. And if I keep circulating and trying to come up with different ideas, then I know that's my own, you know, thought. But when every once in a while, when I get a thought that comes to my mind and I just sort of like have peace and calmness, that's what I'm like, okay, that's from the Lord. So I'm like, all right, when I get fired, which is not my definition of failure, right? Like that means that I failed completely. Uh, but the Lord said this is how we're going to define success for you. So I held on for another few months and then it came to fruition on Monday. And um, and I just feel so at peace because I know it's the Lord's plan. You know, I I can't control it. And um, so my high was that because then I also get to spend more time with Isla. And um, you know, the Lord's already lining stuff up for me. I wanted to take a couple months off, but then I got phone calls, like, okay, are you ready to start working again? And I'm like, no, please, I just I just want to drink. Um, but you know, it's all in the God's God's timing. I was telling my dad, like, I wanted to take a couple months off, but God's like, you know, coming in and setting stuff up pretty quickly. And I'm like, oh, it's because he knows the true desires of my heart. Like, I don't even know what the true desires of my heart are. So he's lining things up and putting things in plan because he loves me so much and doesn't want to leave me where I'm at. So that's pretty cool. So that's my high, but my low is that my husband's still out working, he's out on the road, and so I don't get to take this time to spend with him or you know, hang out with him. Um, so that's that's a sad low. Fun, interesting fact, I've never received an edible arrangement until this last week. Oh my goodness. And Pascal so sweetly sent me an edible arrangement just of encouragement. And um, it was so kind. I called Christian. I was like, are you sending me an edible arrangement? He's like, no.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Oh my goodness. He's gonna be like, what God is sending you?

SPEAKER_05 3:44

He goes, What is your what are your one of your boyfriends is sending it? And I was like, no, they send me, and I couldn't think of anything else. But it was so sweet. Pascal sent me a wonderful, wonderful edible arrangement that I got to share with my neighbors. So thank you for for that. And uh that was the first time I've ever had one sent to me, so that was super sweet. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

What I love about what you just shared is okay, losing a job suddenly, that devastating. But your rock is on Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 4:18

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Yeah, you you're relying on him, you're holding on to him, and because you've been close to him in this whole process, it it's not rocking your world. If anything, it's like my foundation is stable. I'm just tell me where to go next, Lord. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_05 4:37

Yeah, because he loves us so much that he shared that with me in February. Like, this is when the assignment will be over. I'm like, okay, so I just I just needed to wait. And sometimes waiting was really hard. But what's funny is I went in on Monday to resign, but I was met with termination, and God's like, that's not the plan, Alyssa. I told you you have to be fired. So I'm like, okay, I'll take the termination. But yeah, even in that like tiny little piece, he still made it very known, like, hey, I'm God, you're not. This is how it's gonna happen. But yeah. What about you, Kelsey?

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Um there's been a lot of highs still, which God, you know, is like never fails to amaze me the crazy life that I have today. I never thought it was possible. Um so I got my three years sober in March. Um, I got engaged on my birthday.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah. So there's been a lot of uh super highs. I I mean there's been points of kind of low, but honestly, I just my relationship with God today is like so um powerful that even when stuff gets hard, it I have peace and calmness. I'm not I don't get agitated like I used to. I don't um fight, yeah. I don't fight the world, I don't get upset at the situation. I try to handle them in prayer and with the amazing women I have in my life today, which I mean that's all it's all God shots, really, the people in my life today and all of that. Um I mean, I feel like you guys know everything about my life at this point.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

I don't really know what we know, but the audience doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Um I have a cruise addiction problem.

SPEAKER_05 6:45

Cruise, like big boat. Yeah. Mom's over here, like, yeah. Yeah. See, I'm afraid, I'm afraid if I ever go on a cruise, I'd I'd be the same. It's that's why I'm like, nope. I don't want to be a cruise person. So how many cruises have you gone on?

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Three about to be four in the last year and a half. Wow. Okay. Started last January and now I've I'll be on my fourth one in November.

SPEAKER_05 7:12

How fun. Where's your favorite place that you've gone?

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Caribbean.

SPEAKER_05 7:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

We that's we try to do that every winter. Go to Caribbean when it's I mean cold to us. So I'm it's nice. Oh, how fun. Ice break, yeah. Cool.

unknown 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

That that explains why I can't always get a hold of you.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

Maybe a little.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Kelly, what about you? Um, I'm retired, so it's kind of like my life is just kind of like I don't really have highs and lows. Um, we're getting a front yard remodeled, so that's a big it's a big, yeah, it's a big undertaking. And yeah, Terry and I have worked really, really hard uh moving rock and that kind of thing. So um that so that's kind of my high and my low. There you go. High is getting it done, the low is the work that goes into it. Yeah. Um, and something that um Pascal had said maybe people don't know about you is like, I'm a lefty, and that is my superpower.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

You're a what? A lefty. What is D? Oh, left-handed. Nice. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

That we start on the right side for some reason. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

Yeah. Awesome. That's a cool superpower.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

My dad is a lefty, and and that's definitely his superpower.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Well, my grandpa was left-handed, so when I came along, it was left-handed, everybody thought it was really cool. Yeah. I always loved it. I I loved it because I knew I was unique, you know, in that way. And my first grade, we didn't have kindergarten back then. My first grade teacher was um ambidextrous. So do either way, but tying my shoes was a whole big ordeal. Really? Trying to learn how to tie my shoes. Huh. Because it's it's backwards. Interesting. There's a lot of things. I proved one to Kelsey the other day I about being left or right-handed, and I showed her a pen. I said, now tell me this is a right-handed pen. She said, Okay. And I said, Now look at it from a left-hander. Everything's backwards. The writing on it is oh, interesting. Just silly stuff.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

That's your minority.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Well, everything in the world is built for right-handed people.

SPEAKER_06 9:17

It is.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Even cameras, like the the grip is on the left. And my dad's a photographer. So imagine being left-handed, and every camera you pick up is for a right-handed camera.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Yeah, you have to adapt in some things. Like when I was in first grade, my mom, we never had money, and but she bought me some right-handed scissors and it cost a lot of money. Well, some little kid in my class took the screw out of it. So when they tried to put them back together, they never never went back together, right? And she couldn't afford to buy me another pair of left-handed scissors. So I had to learn. That's the one thing I'd have to do right-handed. Yeah. I had to learn right-handed.

SPEAKER_05 9:53

Wow. All right, Pascal, you're up.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Um, okay. I'm trying to think. Low. Um, my baby girl just had surgery. And and you probably don't know that I I have a daughter. Well, I do. I have a one-year-old Italian greyhound. And I referred to her as my daughter, not because she was in my belly, but because Which wouldn't happen normally, anyways. Maybe not.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

Maybe not.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

But because every time she does something wrong, my wife runs upstairs and was like, You would not believe what your daughter did now. So she's become my daughter. Okay, so the low is that she had surgery this past week. Um, nothing serious. We're just not gonna have puppies. So we went through that surgery. Uh so she's milking it for everything she's worked. She she's demanding the treat, she's demanding the love, but she's definitely hurting. She's definitely hurting.

SPEAKER_06 10:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

So that's the low. Um high is I get to sit down with you guys again. Like um, I can't remember the last time the three of us were in a room together. It's it's probably been a year and a half, two years. Yeah, so just to get caught up, to see everything that the the Lord is doing in your life, um to hear about the crucific, to to hear about the engagement, to see you glowing is very high. Very high. Um something interesting is that um okay. I like vinyl. You know, I like analog music, not digital music. So I've got a huge collection of vinyl albums that I'm continually adding to, and it's I I don't need to because you can just go to like Spotify or something and pull up a song list, but no, there's something about experiencing a record that I just thoroughly enjoy. Maybe maybe I'm just too old. And I haven't gotten over that. But to experience an album in its completeness feels different than just a shuffled song on Spotify.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

That's good. Well, that's why they keep making them, right? Someone's gotta like it. Now we know who Pascal, single-handedly keeping the vinyl business in business.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Not single-handedly.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

All right. Well, I mean, we have I like I said, Kelsey and Kelly are here. So Kelsey, I mean, you started getting us up to speed with your engagement, but tell us more about what's going on in your life now.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

So I mean, it's um the main thing when I left Gospel Rescue Mission was consistency, like to make sure I kept that. I knew my failed attempts before a lot of that was because I didn't stay consistent with my AA program, with church was never really a thing until I went to um gospel. So I knew that a lot of that needed, I needed to stay consistent in that. Um, keep my sponsor, start sponsoring girls. And um, that's a big place of where my heart is at is sponsoring other women at Gospel Rescue Mission Um in the AA program and taking them through the 12 steps. So um, I mean, today my life is, you know, work. I'm a functioning member of society that doesn't have to worry about security tackling me when I go into stores anymore, which is nice. Yeah. What a relief. Yeah. Well, it was like just an example. My poor mom. Like when I was at gospel rescue mission, we went to the mall so I could get some stuff. And one of the stores we went in, I was like, I'm letting you know now, like security is probably going to follow us around. And she was like, whatever. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We got followed around the whole store until we checked out. And she was like, You weren't kidding. I was like, No, I'm not kidding. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Your your picture's on a wall somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Oh, I'm sure in a lot of stores, maybe not now, probably not now. Hopefully, not now. Yeah. But there were, yeah, quite a bit of stores. Yeah. That was she would she would forewarn me before we would go in, and I'd be like, look around, you know, like all sheepish.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Like I was doing something.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Yeah. Um, so just, you know, working. Um, I go to meetings still three, four times a week. I go to church. Um, I go to gospel a lot to volunteer. Um, yeah, just trying to do the deal and keep relationships good. Um, you know, my family was a big work in progress. It's still a work in progress. Um, but relationships are there and trying to keep them on like a healthy basis now is a big part of it. Um yeah. I got engaged.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

That's so incredible. So when when did you get engaged?

SPEAKER_03 15:11

So actually on a cruise. On a cruise. On my birthday. Oh my god. He proposed while we after dinner one night, he got like the uh photographer in on it. So the photographer was acting like he was having me pose for a picture when really Scott was getting down on one knee.

SPEAKER_05 15:30

Oh my gosh. You can get married on a cruise.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

I think we're gonna get married in the Virgin Islands, is what we're thinking. Awesome. Yeah, I want a beach. Yeah, yeah. That's my happy place. So well, congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I want to ask the question was that on the cruise that you almost didn't go on? Because wasn't there something with um your probation officer?

SPEAKER_03 15:52

That was the very first one, January last year. We thought that I wasn't gonna be able to go because I couldn't get my passport. And then was it like five days before I left? My probation officer called me and was like, We're early terminating your probation. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so good.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

She was panicking.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Yeah, I was panicking because you don't have to have a passport when you do a closed loop cruise, which is United States to United States. But because of probation um and it being international travel, you have to have a judge sign off on it. And I wasn't getting that back from my PO. So I was like texting him every day, Christian, Christian, hey, uh, I leave in like five days, dude. And then he finally was like, Oh, well, I wasn't answering you because I was trying to get you off probation and you early terminated. So that was well.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Totally a god thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Yeah, absolutely. Not expecting it at all, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

I mean, I was your heart's desire. Your heart's desire was not to just go on this cruise, but your heart's desire was to get off of probation completely. Yeah. Leave that in the past, and the Lord knew I'm gonna answer this prayer that she's not actually praying for.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah, well, and that's what I think that's like one of the coolest things for me in recovery that I is like the the stuff I get to see God do today because I'm gonna cry already. Just for the sole fact that I have the willingness to see it today, and I have the patience and discernment to know, like, if he's telling me no, not right now, that doesn't mean no, it means not right now. It doesn't mean it's not gonna happen. It doesn't mean you know, whatever. And just being at peace with whatever answer I get, not living in Kelsey anymore, because that was a huge problem for me, is impulse. Yeah. What Kelsey wanted, Kelsey got. I was a brat. And getting out of that and just humbling, trying to be humble and listen to what God's trying to say today is a huge part of the beauty for me today in situations, even when it's a no or a not yet, and seeing I always can see now like why it was no.

SPEAKER_05 18:20

Yeah, like looking that the eyes to see God's hands and everything. I'm sure even when you were out, you could look back and see uh God's hands now, yeah, and so many different things. Yeah. So you weren't always that in tune with what the Lord was was wanting to be like.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

Yeah, I um I never really had a relationship with God. Um, my parents, you know, when uh my mom and my stepdad got married, they were going to church. And um my punishment, you know, when they would catch me at a party or come home drunk would be you're going to church the next day. Yeah. I never desired to have a relationship with them. I I was very much in the victim mentality with God. Like if there was a God, why would you do X, Y, and Z? Why would you do this? Why would you let me do this? You know, um so God was never really a part of it for me for a long time. Um and drugs and alcohol became a problem. I started drinking really young. Um, I have older brothers and sisters, so it was given to me all the time. Um, I never felt like I had a problem with alcohol because I could always stop. Um looking back now, it was more of a I had no limit when I drank. It wasn't to just have one, it was to get drunk and it was to affect my mood. Right. It I used alcohol for a long time to affect my mood and make me in a better mood. Um and then I shattered my ankle when I was 20, um, 21 and got prescribed pergo set, and that just set me off on a 15-year binge, pretty much. Um I I got little stents of sobriety for 60, 90 days. I almost put together one year once, a lot of rehabs, a lot of detoxes, a lot of sober livings. Um, and then finally um heroin and then fentanyl. And when fentanyl came around, it was just off to the races with that. And um, meth started then too with the fentanyl. Um, and that was when I really lost contact with everybody, wasn't seeing anyone. I have two girls, I wasn't seeing them, I wasn't talking to them, I wasn't talking to my family, um just really went off on the deep end. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Was that in 2020?

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Uh 2019. 2019, yeah, was when fentanyl and mess started. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

So Kelly, as a mom, watching your baby girl spiral, like, so I have a four-year-old, and I'm sure when Kelsey was four years old, you had of course never imagined her life taking that that turn or that direction. And this all right, me too. This is gonna be really hard to get through because to know love like that is so incredible. So I'm sure the only thing that you could have done was just latch on to the Lord even even more so. So we're here to hear the mama's perspective. So, you know, we get to see Kelsey beautiful and glorious now, but but take us through what it took to get here.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Well, I'll start even when I got pregnant. When I got got pregnant with her in Hawaii. So she's always been my little Hawaiian pineapple. Oh. And um So um the first when when she was born, she was um six months old and my older daughter had to she started kindergarten. So it was like I had her to myself. Yeah. And until she was like seven years old, she was so much fun. Oh my gosh. I was just telling her the other day, I can still hear her me chasing her down the hallway and her just screaming and laughing. And of course, no clothes on, you know, she'd be running down to a little butt just wiggling and stuff. It was so cute. And it just, I mean, I will never ever, it's just one of those things you'll never forget. There's just a great memories. And we always had such a good time. And then um, and then uh I got to stay home for nine years with the girls, and then my husband and I, whole long backstory with him, it was not good. It wasn't good for the girls to see what was going on and that kind of thing. So um I finally got the nerve to divorce him because there was a lot of threats and that if you do this, you know, and I finally did, and um it took every ounce, and at the time, even though I was already saved, I was a Christian, I didn't go to God in prayer about it at all. It was, I just need to get out of this, you know, and to save myself and the girls, I knew I had to do it, but it took every ounce of energy I had to do it, and finally did, only to make things worse. I mean, he just got worse and worse and worse mentally. And um, but then he finally left the country. So I had the girls all to myself, and it was it was awesome. And then um, like in third grade, she she started kind of like getting into fights and that kind of stuff because that's when the divorce all happened. She started getting into fights and stuff like that. And I'm like, I shouldn't be getting called in in third grade, you know. And um, but I covered up. I didn't want to accept that she could be a problem or that there was anything going on. I and I didn't realize at the time that it was because of him leaving and the divorce and that kind of thing. I thought I was enough. I thought I was being mom and dad and that should be enough. And and not even that I thought about it deeply, it's just I just thought, you know. And um, so as time went on, she got into more trouble and more trouble. And people would say things to me, like, we know she's smoking pot. I'm like, no, she's not. And they're like, yeah, she is. And so they said you should do a drug test. So I did a drug test and let her pee in the cup on her own, right? I said, no, it shows she's doesn't have anything in her system. And I don't know if you remember that or not. And um, so different things like that uh happened, and she kept just progressively getting worse and mouthy and um very irresponsible, um, mean. And by time 2019 rolled around, it was like I could not stand to be around her. And she was living with us at the time. And finally in 2019, we butted heads. And I when she was in the shower, I went and took her keys off the key ring. And so then when she left, she couldn't get back in. And I said, Your stuff will be waiting outside. You cannot come back and don't come back until you're sober and clean.

SPEAKER_05 25:16

Now, how did that feel as a parent? Like, was that hard, or were you already just at your wit's end that you're like, I can't do this anymore?

SPEAKER_02 25:24

I well, because leading up to that, it was like I was I thought I was pulling it off by um covering up for her, basically lying to people, you know, that this isn't going on. Or even my my poor husband, Terry, that I'm married to now. I mean, we've been married for almost 28 years now, but at the time when we were going through this, like money would be missing, and I would I would just blow it off, you know. Or she would say she needed something when I deep down I knew that it probably wasn't it, but I gotta give her the benefit of the doubt. I gotta help her with her bills so she doesn't go into debt. I don't want her to ruin your credit, so I would help her. And so I would lie to Terry about where the money was going and you know, stuff like that. And so by time 2019 rolled around, um, and this is gonna sound really horrible as from a mother's point of view, but for me, it was a relief to have her out of my house because she was so mean and she was she was ruining every relationship I had. Um at work, it was like I couldn't even work, I couldn't even function at work until she was finally gone. And then I was able to work again. And then um with Terry too, the our relationship started mending again because he could see it, but he knew she's my my blood daughter. So he couldn't say everything he, I'm sure he wanted to say.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Yeah, I'm sure there is some trepidation, you know. Don't want to be a good one. No, it's different, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

As much as he loved her, you know, it's still different. Yeah. And um, so so it was a relief. And it was hard. The hardest part though was the almost five years that she was gone because I we didn't have any communication. I didn't hear from her. I didn't nothing, nothing. The only thing is every once in a while, somebody that knew her would run into her and let me know that they saw her and she she looked pretty good or whatever, you know. So I knew she was alive and I knew she was still in Tucson, but that's really all I knew.

SPEAKER_05 27:29

So up until 2019, you sort of you sat in that enablement space for a little bit. Um, and I think a lot of that is is ignorance, right? Like you think that what you're doing is helping and what you're doing is in is eventually they're they're gonna catch on, eventually they'll get it. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

And so And the fact I didn't want to admit it to other people.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

Well, that that that's the other thing too, is that there's that fear of embarrassment or fear of failure, you know? And um, and so I think a lot of parents struggle with that that enablement or that um that fear of embarrassment. And so when you when you took that stand and you were risking knowing if your daughter was alive or not for the sake of her to be alive right now. And that had to have been heart-wrenching.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

It was, and but I looked at it from my point of view was that I mean it I I was literally shutting down, and so I could feel my organs shutting down, and I knew I was not gonna survive this if I didn't get get her out of the house. Yeah. And so um it it did, you know. I I started coming back to life, but I knew if I didn't get her out of the house that I wasn't gonna be here to for her.

SPEAKER_05 28:53

And you would keep enabling, you you wouldn't be able to come face to face with um, you know, the boundary of staying here and me not giving you money or not doing all these things. And it sounded like you just needed to separate yourself completely very much and start with that big boundary and then start to taper down, right? Like obviously your relationship is much better now than it was our 2019 was like seven years ago. That's crazy. Yeah. Um so in that time, what did your relationship with the Lord look like? You know, trusting that your daughter was out on the street somewhere and just trusting that the Lord was was providing for her, taking care of her.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

That is pretty much it, you know, because he wasn't answering my prayers, obviously, you know, because it was it, she wasn't getting any better, she wasn't coming home, she wasn't saying, Mom, I need help. Yeah, you know, we'd already gone through all of that, you know. And so I just felt like he wasn't answering my prayers. And I even told my brother-in-law, who who is a pastor, I said, I don't even know what to pray for anymore. He said, just keep praying, just keep praying. So it's like, okay, you know, so I didn't my relationship with the Lord didn't change, but it was like I just didn't know what to say to him anymore, you know, because I I knew he could do it, I knew he could move her, but I didn't know when. And I was getting impatient. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:21

Amen, sister. Absolutely. The Lord's timing is um almost never our timing. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. And and like we were talking about earlier, like the the Lord knowing your heart's true desires. Like you you said yourself, like you didn't even know what to pray for. You didn't know what your heart's true desire was. But thankfully, we've got a translator that you'll pray, and the translator will be like, Well, what she actually means is yeah. And that's you know, the theme of the of Made for Christ is like he loves us so intimately and so uniquely that he, the translator, can say to the like to his third part, you know, um, no, what she really means is this. And I'm sure you weren't praying, I mean, I know you were praying for her to quote unquote get better, but could you imagine where she is now six, seven years ago?

SPEAKER_02 31:20

No, no, I when she was a little toddler, I couldn't imagine where she was. Yeah, and now reversing back, I can't imagine. Right. You know, so it's like it is, it's it's a miracle. I mean, God just moved mountains literally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

And it's gotta be so hard to even tell this story because there was a lot that happened leading up to her disappearing in 2019. Yeah, like for a lot of that time you were struggling with painkillers and it becoming an increase and your reliance on it increased, you were hiding that addiction. And even as it became more and more of a problem, you hid it from everybody, and you were hiding it so well that mom didn't even see it until it was made in your face, you couldn't deny it anymore. It was impacting your bank statement, it was impacting your relationships with your husband, it was impacting your health because you talked about your your stress.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

But your f absolute first um the way you tried to resolve it first wasn't shutting that door, it was the the rehabs, it was um finding places that um to go through to get cleaned. So how many different rehabs, different facilities did you find?

SPEAKER_02 32:56

We counted one time as somewhere between 17 and 19. Wow. That we have in and out of. And and I mean here California, up in um Phoenix area, all over.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

It was and were they were they all free? Were they did they cost something? Um were they 30 programs? Was it a weekend program?

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Uh most of them were you go and you stay, but you can walk out. So it's like they could walk out the door and get whatever drug they wanted to. And it was to me, they weren't they weren't free. Somehow they had to be paid for.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Um, whether it was the state or our insurance or out of our pocket, whatever it got paid for somehow. But I I don't have faith in those places because you go in and you go out and you go back and you go out. It's not not like at gospel where you go in and they fill you up. And to me, the rehabs in that, it's a circular moneymaker. Oh, absolutely. And I just I think that's a big failure in our system.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Absolutely. Well, and that's something too that um was like huge for me as far as gospel rescue mission goes, was there I'm not gonna say names, but there was a a rehab that I went to and I knew I needed more than 30 days. Yeah, I told them like I want to be here more than 30 days. What do I need to do? And I think my mom even talked to them too. And they said, Well, you gotta go out, relapse, and then come back because your drug test has to be dirty for you to stay longer than 30 days. Can you imagine that?

SPEAKER_05 34:35

It's crazy. And and so much, and that's the beauty of Gospel Rescue Mission being privately funded by amazing donors who love the people that Gospel Rescue Mission serves. Um insurances say you had this addiction for 10 years, you've got 90 days in a 12-month period to get better. And if you do 30 days here, go back out, 30 days there, like you only have 90 days within a 12-month period. And no one can, you can't get better in 90 days. You barely scratch that surface of getting clear-minded.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Well, like Kelsey has said, when you go in, they automatically put you into was it suicide prevention or something. Oh, yeah. Detox first and then suicide watch or whatever, you know. So it's a different thing. So you're not even getting your full 28 or 30 days.

SPEAKER_05 35:28

Yeah, definitely. So gospel rescue mission has 12 to 14 months where that's when your brain is just starting to to remap and and you're just starting to get clear. And you're getting confidence, absolutely worth on their own. Dignity, worth, absolutely. And so um so gospel rescue mission obviously was the last rehab that you tried. Yeah. So um, what was what was that like when you so discovered that?

SPEAKER_02 35:58

So, what happened with that? My brother-in-law, the the pastor knows Dennis and Mary Barreras. And so when all this was going on, my husband said, I will go get her once she's because she was in jail, once she's released, I will get her and take her to gospel. That's all I will do for her.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

I'm sorry, can we tell that story though of how she ended up in in jail?

SPEAKER_03 36:22

Um, she'll have to tell that part. Um, so I got a lengthy record in the five years that I was um gone for all kinds of stuff. Um, I ended up getting uh felony charges uh for sales of narcotics, sales of dangerous drugs, and identity theft. Um, I had so many warrants um and failure to appears under my name uh that I thought it would be a smart choice to use my sister's name the next time I got arrested. Um I did that five times with using my sister's name. Um, she eventually found out about it, um, because I, of course, didn't take care of them. So she got warrants under her name. Um, and so she uh my sister filed charges um to get them removed from her name. So um when I actually got arrested on the felony cases for sales of narcotics, um, they indicted me on five counts of identity theft as well. So I um was in in jail. My drug charges ended up getting um dismissed. So it was just the five counts of identity theft that I was being held on. Um my attorney came to see me and told me because it was five counts of identity theft at that point, probation is not available. Um, and it was 0.75 to 2.75 per charge. So I was looking at 3.75 to 10 years in prison at that point. Um, she asked if I wanted to do um a motion for release because I was being held on bond. And I told her no, let me sit here and like get everything out of my system. Um, so after 30 days, my uh best friend bailed me out of Pima County while I was in jail this time. Um I did call my parents and start speaking to them on a pretty regular basis. Um, and we were trying to figure out what I was gonna do if and when I got out, because we had no idea if I would get out before sentencing or if they were gonna hold me the whole time. Um and so gospel rescue mission got brought up. And there was one other one, one in Phoenix, um, that someone had told my mom about. So I actually wrote them a letter from jail like asking if I could do intake if I was released. Um, and then one of the phone call conversations I had with my dad, um he got on the phone and said, if you get out, the only way we will see you is if you go to Gospel Rescue Mission and do their year program. I knew none of the other programs were gonna work. It had to be at least they hadn't worked.

SPEAKER_05 39:23

Right. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Yeah. So we that's what we were trying to figure out. You know, like obviously rehab wasn't cutting it for me. So, like, what what did I need to do? Where was a long-term program? And um, there was a few different people that played a role in getting us to check out Gospel Rescue Mission. And um, so my dad told me that, and it was like, I think I had a court date, and that's why we were talking about it. I don't remember, I was still foggy. Um and then it was like a few days later after my dad had said that my best friend ended up bailing me out, and I got out at like midnight. I called my parents. Of course, we freaked out. Yeah, they were not happy I was out, not happy at all. Um, but I called them and said, you know, I can you take me? So they came and picked me up at four in the morning and we went to gospel and they didn't leave until they couldn't see me anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

So, Kelly, what was it like for you and Terry to um hear that she was picked up, taken to county jail, it's gonna be doing this time. Walk me through what you guys were going through when that news was unraveling.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

So when all that happened, um, of course, we were uh Kyla is our other daughter that Kelsey used her name. And so we were like, oh my gosh, how could she do this to her own sister? You know, so we're trying to help Kyla figure out what to do and all that, because her thing was here, she had warrants for her arrest that she had no idea of. What if a tail light was out and a cop stopped her and she had the boys in the car? They would have been taken to CPS. And so all this kind of stuff is going through her mind. So we're trying to get stuff sorted out of how to proceed to get Kyla out of this. Well, by doing that, then she was gonna have to be charged, which we were fine with at the time. And that's when I found her when we went to the sheriff's department, they gave us a copy of her um mugshot, and I literally, literally felt the blood run down to my feet. It was like I I thought I was gonna pass out. And um, because that was my first first time seeing anything about her in almost five years.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

That is no offense, Kelsey, but that's not a pretty mugshot.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Oh my goodness. But I think I think in the end, though, it's awesome testimony.

SPEAKER_05 41:55

Amen, 100%. But it's a perfect depiction of where you were, like the literal depths of hell. Like that's what it looks like.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

So it's so so describe this this mugshot. What what about it hit you so hard?

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Oh my gosh. Look, look at this face, and then look at a girl with greasy, dirty hair, makeup all over her face, eyes that look like she just woke up and rubbed makeup, you know, rubbed her eyes with makeup on and just her face was all broken out. Not a pretty picture. Not a pretty picture.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

But it wasn't just the makeup, it wasn't just the face.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

It was my daughter.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Well, as I understand it, you were really skinny in that picture, right? Like that your bones and your face were prominent. That's what I remember when I looked at it.

SPEAKER_05 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

Yeah. I look soulless.

SPEAKER_05 42:48

Truly, truly. There was a vacancy. Yeah, nothing there.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Just a shell. So back to your question though, it was it was mostly at that point trying to help Kyla figure out, navigate what to do to get her out of all of this mess, and it took like two years. So it's been quite trying with that.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

So when um Terry said, Okay, go to gospel rescue mission or else, um, what was he going through when he made that decision?

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Well, he's so level-headed, you know, that he knew, he knew, you know, and he knew what I needed. And he knew that I needed him to step up and say what we needed to do because I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_05 43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

You know, I just I couldn't. And so he just kind of took charge, and this is what's gonna happen. And I was like, okay. And so I I got a hold of Mary Barreras and told her what was going on, and then told Kelsey about it. Kelsey called Mary and talked to her, and so then when she got released from jail and called us, then we went and picked her. Up from her friend's house. And like she said, we were not happy. And so when she walked out that morning at four o'clock from his apartment, it was like the first time we'd seen her, you know, in person. So it was, and she didn't even come to me though, she went to Terry first. So we're all crying and everything. So we took her and we sat there. And like she said, we waited till we could not see her in the gates anymore to actually leave. And I did that for probably the first six months she was there.

unknown 44:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 44:32

So with um with gospel rescue mission and going through that program, what was your journey coming alongside her for that that year? What did that look like? And and watching her develop a relationship with the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Because Terry and I, you know, we did go to church and we did believe in Christ. And even though she was distant, I still knew that she had it in her in her roots, you know. And so that was really cool that she had that. And so by going to gospel, I knew that she was gonna get more. And and I knew it was gonna fill her somehow, you know, and knowing Mary, and then and then getting to know Joyce Hughes and all those people that helped her, that mentored her. I know I'm missing some names. So if they're sorry if I missed your name, but there were so many that were so instrumental in her progress of being a better person, a better Christian, um, loving the Lord and just watching it, you know, like at first I we didn't get to participate in much, you know, so we didn't really know what was going on other than to pick her up, take her to court appearances and that kind of thing. Yeah, you know, so we didn't get to see much. But then when we start getting invited to come in and see, you know, different things that they were doing, and it was very cool. It was very cool. It is the most unique, unique experience ever.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

And when you think back of your prayers, you know, back in 2019 or before that, um, I'm again, I'm sure this is even better than anything that you could have prayed for.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Oh my gosh, yeah. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined. I always tease her, I always tell her, I said, you're the happy person that you were when you were seven, you know, and it's just the coolest thing. It's like I really have my daughter back.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

There's just something about those mama's prayers, you know, like the Lord has a special place in his heart for the mom that cries out in such agony for their children. Like, imagine, you know, Jesus on the cross, like that pain that the Lord felt when his own son was separated from him. Like to put that into perspective for us as parents to know that and and feel what it feels like for our kids. Even like when Isla like hurts her knee or something, you know, like I want to protect her. Um and and it's also so crazy to think that as much as you love Kelsey or as much as I love Isla, God loves them even more. That's mind-blowing to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Not only is he seeing all of this unravel, but okay, you went to gospel rescue mission when you were in about a month, you started hearing the Holy Spirit while you were there. He started working in your life, and that transformation started to happen. You started to blossom in that place. So God was walking alongside you through it all, um, through your addiction, life on the streets, coming to gospel rescue mission, and guiding you through the healing process. And of course, he's celebrating with you now the the restoration that's happening. But that same God that was working in your life is the same God that heard your prayers and acknowledged your hurt and your fears and was working out your prayers the same way that in the same way at the same time that he was working work in your life for that restoration for his kingdom, loving both of you the same way, and I I I can't imagine what that homecoming is gonna look like when someday you're gonna meet him face to face in person, you know. Well done, my daughter. So, what was it like for you when you started to see Kelsey open up to the Lord, start hearing the gospel message, and start responding to the gospel message? What were you experiencing when you were hearing that and seeing that and witnessing it?

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Um kind of like I wasn't really sure what I was if I really wanted to believe it or not at first, you know, because it's like I knew everything that she was doing. I mean, she really put herself into all the programs and put herself into all the programs and that. And so I knew she was working really, really hard. But the God part of it, I'm like, okay, let's wait and see if this is for real. But as time went on, it was like I could see her heart, her dad could see her heart. We knew, we knew he was moving for her to be able to move the way she was moving. And I mean, it wouldn't, it wouldn't happen without him. There's no way. So for us to watch it was just amazing. I mean, I don't even know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_05 50:07

It's a gift, it's truly such a gift. And that's one of the things I'm gonna miss the most about Gospel Rescue Mission is getting to see people's lives transform. Like for everything that happened for you, Kelsey, there are thousands of other people who have had the same transformation because of gospel rescue mission. And it's because of prayers from their parents and the people that they love that love them the most and the patients. And um, you know, sobriety is great, that's awesome, but it's such a great um symptom of a relationship with Christ. You know, like that's really where the the life transformation happens is the relationship with the Lord and being in community with people who have the relationship with the Lord and um fellowship. And then the symptom of all of that is sobriety because recovery is active, right? You'll forever be working in that that function of in recovery. But salvation is forever, that can't get lost. And even if there is a slip up or a stumble, there's no more shame in that because God removed that and and you can move forward and push forward and be an example to the people that you sponsor or the people that you um are are in fellowship with. You know, you were you're talking about one of your sponsees earlier and and just her struggle with that victim mentality. And I there's no better person to come alongside her than someone who sat in that, you know, and you can say, okay, well, when you're ready, you know, I'll be here, but there's no pushing it or shoving it. And um, and that foundation of the of the Lord will always be there for people. And that's so beautiful. So beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Well, and I think too, the continuing um staying with those people, yeah, you know, the the believers and that she hasn't walked away from now. They're very instrumental in helping her stay on track.

SPEAKER_05 52:22

Yeah, I've I've heard it said that the opposite of sobriety or recovery is not drugs or alcohol, but it's isolation. When you are isolated, you don't have ironing sharpening iron, iron sharpening iron. You don't have community and people to uh to share your burdens with, to share your hurts with. And so the best thing that the enemy can do is isolate us and put us in a position where we feel alone and scared. And um, and it's amazing that it goes back to jail, right? Like even in jail, there wasn't isolation. You were with women who were praying and reading the Bible, and that journey of finding the Lord for yourself really started in that, in that pod and in that area. Yeah. I've heard so many stories like that. Like one of my neighbors is a cop and they're like saying something about like being afraid of the people who that he's arrested, like coming and finding him. I was like, I know a lot of people that have been to jail and they're all super grateful for getting arrested. Like they write letters to their arresting officer saying, Thank you. Without this, I would be dead.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

Yeah, she's contacted the the one that arrested her. Yeah. Told him thank you. It's amazing several times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Wow. So um what's your life like now?

SPEAKER_02 53:41

Oh my gosh, we have so much fun. She she is my best friend. I mean, it's no doubt about it, you know. Um, it's awesome. We we do everything together, church, cruises, everything. So beautiful. And and what's fun is we we laugh about silly stuff. I'm I pull some stunts sometimes that are just goofy, and I don't even know why, but it just happens to me. So we can sit and laugh about them, and we just we just laugh about a lot of stuff. We have a good time. And we live like a mile and a half apart because I walked to her house a lot.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Are how are your other relationships? Your daughters, that was a big burden on you, your relationship with your sister. How's that all working out?

SPEAKER_03 54:31

So, um, as far as my family goes, I mean, most of us are on I'd say good terms. I talk to them, I see them at church. Um, there's still a few that aren't ready to forgive or let me make amends um so we can have that conversation. Um, so I primarily like with my sister, she's still not ready to have a face-to-face conversation. So um, you know, part of part of AA is making amends, which a big part of that for me be with people that won't aren't ready to make or let me make amends yet is um living amends, my my recovery, what I do today to help others, what I do to make my life better than it was. Um so just continuously being in that moment and living amends. Um, but I like with my sister, I do try to text her at least like once a month to tell her I love her and I miss her. I did um send her a letter with my two-year chip in it when I got my two years. Um, because that that was a huge thing for my family this time too, was I had been down this road so many times with the rehabs, with the getting sober, with the lying about if I was sober still and all of that, that they didn't want to hear the I'm sorry's anymore. They didn't want to, they really didn't want to deal with me, period. And then adding the layer of me doing that to my blood sister was like a whole nother level of hurt that I had caused. So um I waited, you know, with direction from my sponsor. I waited until I had two years to even try to make amends to it was my whole family, actually, even even my parents. I didn't try to make amends with them until I had two years. Um and so like my sister, she didn't want to have face-to-face, but I still I sent a letter with my two-year chip, and then I make sure I text her at least once a month, and like, especially on Mother's Day, her birthday, stuff like that, to tell her I love her. Um my girls, uh, so my oldest is 18. Um, I still don't have any communication with her. Um, her dad and her stepmom um haven't really wanted communication. Um, and I I didn't want to try. It ends up in a court battle, and when I got sober, she was a year away from being 18. Um, so that one I've just been praying about and kind of leaving that to when God thinks it's time to go that route, then I will. Um my little one, not little, but she's 14. Um her dad and me didn't talk for a long time. Um he also was used to me being aggressive. Um if I wanted something to happen, I would do whatever that means to make it happen. Usually that was a fight or an argument. Um, so he didn't he wouldn't really communicate with me. And then when I had like a year, he started um responding to text messages. Um same thing with him. As far as amends goes, um he was willing to hear the amends, but not face to face. So I also sent him a letter with a chip in it. Um, and after that, we've communicated a few times about my daughter and what that looks like. Um, Jade, my daughter, she's finally just um March 25th was her 14th birthday. Was I giving her phone number so that I could finally like text her myself, not have to talk to her dad to talk to her. Um, so me and her have texted a few times, but she's still not ready to have like a full relationship or communicate on a regular basis. So again, giving it to God and trusting the process and that it'll be corrected exactly the way it needs to be corrected.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

But that bridge is there now, and it wasn't there before. Right.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Yeah, yeah. So there's there's definitely been huge steps. It's just again, not Kelsey's time, which has been a hard pill to swallow sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Isn't that the hardest thing though? Just waiting on the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Having that that heart's desire, praying, and just knowing that if we try and force this to happen on our own will, yeah, not only are we gonna violate God's will for us, but we're probably gonna mess something up too. Yep. So how do we wait? How do we sit?

SPEAKER_03 59:45

I mean, for me, it's just a lot of prayer, a lot of talking to other women about it, a lot of um living amends, you know, every day. What am I doing to make sure that when and if she is ready to have that relationship, I'm in a good space and I'm not somebody that she's afraid to have a relationship with or worried that I'm not gonna come back again. Um just really making sure I'm grounded in my relationship with God is is the main thing. And believing, really believing today that I know in my heart that I'm doing everything I can. And so when the day comes, I'm ready for it, and I know that I've done the work behind it. No more shame, no more guilt, just ready to have a good, healthy relationship with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:53

What what a what a wonderful gift to have to even in the pain rejoice in that, yeah, you know, and and that only comes from the Lord. And I admire you so much, Kelsey, for for having that patience and for being able to say, like, I've caused so much turmoil in my kids' lives already that I don't want to step in and cause even more. Um I want to just step back and do right by them. So exactly what you said. So when the time comes, the trust can can be solidified. And I think that that is so hard to face that. Because it wouldn't it just be so much easier to just still be out there, you know, running and gunning and just not facing the truth and not facing the the people that you hurt. It's so much easier to do that. But that's not what God wants for us, that wants for you. That's not what He's called us to this higher standard. And you're choosing the hard route, and it's gonna be so much sweeter in the end, and it's just so beautiful that uh you're staying committed to what the Lord is asking you to do, even in the pain and in the hurt.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:19

Yeah. Well, and that that's been a huge thing for me this time too, is just that, you know, like um I've always been like super impulsive. When I want something, I get it. Somebody can try to tell me no, but I promise you I'm gonna get it one way or another. Yeah. And so that was like a huge thing I had to work on this time. Was you know, my timing obviously doesn't work very well. So like trusting that God is he's working it out, even when we don't see it, he's working it out. And even when it takes five years or however long, that's okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:02

Yeah, because what's that compared to eternity? You know, blink of an eye. Or dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

Yeah, I still have her.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

Well, thank you for sharing your your story.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:17

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

I do have a a question for you. Um you shared what you went through. But um there's so many mothers out there, so many families out there watching their kids struggle in addiction. They don't know what to do. They want to fix the problem. What's your advice to them? And and you're probably the only person that can say that because you've you're not the only person, but you're one of the few that have been through it all. You you've seen it from beginning to end, you know what it takes. So, what's your advice to families going through that?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Well, I think every family is different and every situation is different. So you kind of have to follow your own heart, but at the same time, you know what has worked and what hasn't worked. So if it hasn't worked, don't keep going down that route. Isn't that insanity, right? The definition of insanity. Yeah, and it's like we do it again and again and again, thinking it's gonna heal them, they're gonna get better, you know, they're they're gonna be normal or whatever, but it doesn't work, you know, if it or if it hasn't worked, then don't keep going down that route. And that's what we had to do with with her, is just put our foot down and say, no more. We we just can't, I I could not do it. And so, but like I said, everybody's different, and I don't want to tell people how to treat theirs, but I do have a uh lady that calls me regularly about her daughter. She's kind of going through the same thing, and she goes, I don't know what to tell her, you know. So I'll tell her what I would do in that situation, but you you gotta do what you feel is best in your situation. So for us, what worked was not seeing her, letting her work it out, whatever she needed to do. And the hardest part was not knowing if I was ever gonna see her again, or you know, the hardest part was getting the knock on the door and seeing a cop there and going just knowing, just knowing they found her dead somewhere. You know, that's the hardest part. But I think you just have to you have to do what's best for you and your family. I I don't know what else.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

You have to trust the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

Wait.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not very good at that either.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

Final thoughts?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:44

Um, just thank you so much to the two of you for being here again. Um It's I I know that it's not it's still super raw, but it's still so heartbreaking to see you, Kelsey. Um get emotional, you know, like you're still hard on yourself and you still um are I don't know, the enemy that it feels like the enemy is trying to keep you in this clasp of shame or hurt and especially reliving it with your mom. But um I think forgiving yourself is the first step and and continuing to forgive yourself, right? Because um I know that we all can get stuck in this cycle of things that we've done or said that hurt other people and um continually remembering that we've already been forgiven, so it's okay to forgive ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:45

Um because it it breaks my heart to see you sad like this because you are such an incredible woman, and you wouldn't be the incredible woman you are without the pain and heartache and just disgusting life that you had to live, um, but all for the glory of the Lord, and and Kelly to be such a strong mom to also offer that forgiveness.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:14

And you have to remind yourself regularly, I'm sure, that that Kelsey's already forgiven. And just you started the story and the conversation with that four-year-old little girl running down the hallway, and just the joy and how much fun you had with her, and then you ended your story with the two of you being best friends and having so much fun with each other and what a beautiful circle that the Lord has allowed you to live in, and then also the perspective to be able to see it that way, and um, you know, we truly are just made for Christ and whatever it is that our boneheaded selves get our ourselves into. He's always there ready to redeem us. We just have to step into it, and so thank you for living your redemption story so boldly for people to experience. And Kelly, thank you for your vulnerability as a mom, you know. Um having multiple kids, you know, like it wasn't you couldn't focus all your time on Kelsey. You had other children that you needed to also um pour into and and spend your energy on, and uh that that in itself is a superpower.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

I I can say though, that is one area that I failed in because I did pour it into her. I poured into her trying to make her better. And I do feel like my other children didn't get what they deserved.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:50

But part of that redemption is now, right? Like you're able to look back, and you with Kyle, you did what you could to help her come out of that, and your other kids, you know, for as long as we live as parents, we're always gonna be fighting for our kids and we are always gonna mess up. So it's it's what you do after you mess up that matters. And so even when your children are adults, being able to look back and say, okay, I totally screwed up, so I'm gonna do better today. I'm gonna do better tomorrow. Um again, that's the beauty of redemption, and that's what the example that Jesus has given us and he's rescued us from is you can always do better tomorrow. That's all I got. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Thank you.